Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Wiring Baffle

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Wiring Baffle

    I don't know if the image will work, we'll see. Ok it works but it is side ways. Wiring done in a newer garage about 3 yrs old. I had to remove the switch temporarily so I could take down an 8' section of a wall. When I hooked the switch back up, it dawned on me, that this switch only has one set of wires going in, or actually in this case going out. I was baffled as to how power goes in and out. They must have used the white wire as hot as well as the black and as far as ground is concern, no where to ground it. Plastic box and no grounding screw for that switch. For being almost brand new garage, I thought this was stupid and I don't understand why they did it this way.. No I wasn't going to start opening all the lines to see exactly how they did this, I was baffled but didn't want to get into it. So am I correct to say that the white was hot? Ya, and no tester on me....
    Attached Files
    Last edited by garager; 10-17-2007, 12:50 PM.
    Great Link for a Construction Owner/Tradesmen, and just say Garager sent you....

    http://www.contractorspub.com

    A good climbing rope will last you 3 to 5 years, a bad climbing rope will last you a life time !!!

  • #2
    Re: Wiring Baffle

    on a switch leg it is permissible to use the white wire as a return line, but it is required to have been marked with black tape or colored black,
    the grounds should have been hooked up,

    It is not an uncommon application.

    Article 200.7,c,2 note: the below is a paraphrase of the actual code text,
    You can use the white or gray conductor within a cable assembly for single-pole, three-way or four-way switch loops if it is permanently re-identified to indicate its use as an ungrounded (hot) conductor at each location where the conductor is visible and accessible [200.7(C)(2)]. http://www.mikeholt.com/mojonewsarch...s~20040624.php
    this link should bring up a few pages out of a book that shows how it was done or what I think I understand was done.
    http://books.google.com/books?id=wn9...G503k#PPA88,M1
    Last edited by BHD; 10-17-2007, 02:45 PM.
    Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
    attributed to Samuel Johnson
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Wiring Baffle

      The GFCI, is this why the ground is not hooked up, no need for one. But doesn't the GFCI senses the neutral? So when the neutral is hot, shouldn't this somehow effect the GFCI when it does become hot? There was no marking or indication about the neutral wire being changed.
      Great Link for a Construction Owner/Tradesmen, and just say Garager sent you....

      http://www.contractorspub.com

      A good climbing rope will last you 3 to 5 years, a bad climbing rope will last you a life time !!!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Wiring Baffle

        Garager, the neutral is not hot in the light circuit. what they did was run the neutral to the white wire of the light fixture. The black (hot) wire of the light circuit goes to the black wire of the switch and comes back to the lights black wire as the white wire from the switch cable. If they would have used conduit and pulled individual wires, they would have pulled 2 black wires to the switch. Who ever did the wireing used the cheapest parts they could find. I have seen those switches without a ground screw at the dollar stores 4-6 for a buck. Dangerous Chinese junk!!!!!!
        info for all: http://www.hoistman.com http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/index....wwtoolinfoforu --- "I like long walks, especially when they are taken by people who annoy me."

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Wiring Baffle

          Correct me if I am wrong, but this is called a cold switch. My neighbor used them in several places in his house when he initially ran the wiring, and when I followed through after several weeks to help with trim out it confused me a bit as well.
          Still enjoying all 10 fingers!

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Wiring Baffle

            1. The receptacle must be grounded or it's not safe. A GFCI device measures the current difference between hot and neutral. If it's greater than 5/1000 Amp then the device trips quickly. If the ground is not connected you have a dangerous receptacle. Please fix it.

            2. The switch is connected in series with both lamp sockets. The hot power wire running from the receptacle should be black and the return wire which is now most likely white, needs red tape on both ends.

            3. Unless things are really messed up, both lamp sockets are connected in parallel and the switch sees this as a single load.

            Switches and all other wiring devices should be grounded for safety reasons. For the time being, if there is a metal cover/plate for this switch please replace it with a plastic one. While the screws can become (rare but can happen) energized at least the cover/plate won't be.

            The bottom line is pretty much as PapaDan said. Some Dudly The Dip--t gave you the 1/2 @$$ job there. He/she needs to find out what a steel toe work boot in the butt is all about.

            Thumbnail is the same picture but resized and rotated.
            Attached Files
            Last edited by Woussko; 10-18-2007, 01:08 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Wiring Baffle

              Actually there is an advantage to this type of connection.
              Since the power is in the octagon box on the ceiling if you were to use a ceiling fan the pull cord can control the power to the fan and the light switch can control only the light. This is a common wiring method, nothing wrong with it.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Wiring Baffle

                On switch loops or legs it has been that way since fore(ever), as an apprentice you learn that when you encounter a light with a white wire tied to black , it is an automatic alarm, should go off, ' hey this is a switch leg'. The white wire goes to the switch and the black is returned to the load.

                200.7 as pointed out in the NEC, has been that way as far back as I can remember, and that is 40 years, Later on in the 96 code makes reference to RE-identifying the white or Gray wire to indicate it as being part of a switch leg.

                Now they are suggesting (shall be) re-identified permanently, Black tape or a felt tip was permissible. Then they went to re identify the white wire completely inside the box.

                All switches are supposed to be grounded and bonded to a metal box if one is used. Grounding is a connection to the earth and bonding is to ensure a completed path for ground fault currents.

                Comment

                Working...
                X