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  • Who's job is it?

    Ok, just back from a boiler I installed recently.
    Customer called saying his zones were heating eratically.
    Turns out the Taco 3 zone was wired with one heat zone set up as a priority zone, causing the timed TT's to interact weirdly.
    I paid the electrician to wire it and he mistakingly removed the priority jumper..an easy fix...but it got me thinking.
    How many of you electricians take care of low voltage wiring on boilers?
    I've heard conflicting opinions on whether it's the plumbers job.
    My concern is getting into things my license doesn't cover, in the same respect I'd just as soon do it myself rather than pay out...any thoughts?

  • #2
    Re: Who's job is it?

    Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
    Ok, just back from a boiler I installed recently.
    Customer called saying his zones were heating eratically.
    Turns out the Taco 3 zone was wired with one heat zone set up as a priority zone, causing the timed TT's to interact weirdly.
    I paid the electrician to wire it and he mistakingly removed the priority jumper..an easy fix...but it got me thinking.
    How many of you electricians take care of low voltage wiring on boilers?
    I've heard conflicting opinions on whether it's the plumbers job.
    My concern is getting into things my license doesn't cover, in the same respect I'd just as soon do it myself rather than pay out...any thoughts?

    I let electricians hook up my pumps to timers, tankless units, exterior of course, pretty much the only electrical I do is the dishwasher, electric water heaters, garbage disposals, and pumps, alarms. stuff that I have to disconnect and re-connect, never new installs.

    In your case, it would be the electricians problem.
    sigpic

    Robert

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    • #3
      Re: Who's job is it?

      Here(NJ), a Licensed Master Plumber or a Licensed HVAC&R Contractor (new license this year) can work on low voltage wiring up to 30V pertaining to the installation of plumbing or HVAC&R controls.
      ---------------
      Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
      ---------------
      “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
      ---------
      "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
      ---------
      sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

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      • #4
        Re: Who's job is it?

        We all work under different codes but I don't see why control wires need an electrician.

        Mark
        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Who's job is it?

          Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
          We all work under different codes but I don't see why control wires need an electrician.

          Mark
          Thats my point.
          Our code allows anyone to work on low voltage..the trick is that the circs are house current, so I'd just as soon let the electrician do it all...but today was aggravating.
          The homeowner is an electrical engineer ironically...he knew what was wrong as soon as I said the word "priority".
          We cracked a few off color jokes about the electrician, but I think I might make a call and find out what the line is.
          Occurs to me that when I sub out the work, I still have to be the one to answer any callbacks.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Who's job is it?

            So thinking out loud for a minute do you hire an electrician when you have a hard wired disposal, dishwasher or water heater? It seems if the electrical work is limited and you are not adding new circuits it should not be a big deal.

            Mark
            "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

            I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Who's job is it?

              Here a plumber or HVAC&R contractor can replace in kind (can not do a new install hookup) equipment related to plumbing or HVAC systems (circ pumps, disposals, etc.) as long as there is a disconnect or dedicated breaker that services the one piece of equipment only and there is no change in the load (same voltage and amperage).

              As Mark said not a biggie.

              I know the NJ code (NSPC) does not apply to your part of the world, I just throw it out there so you can all see the differences between them. Not saying either is better. Somce day there will be equality across the country in the plumbing and other codes, with minor changes to conform to local requirements.
              Last edited by Bob D.; 01-06-2008, 07:34 PM.
              ---------------
              Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
              ---------------
              “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
              ---------
              "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
              ---------
              sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Who's job is it?

                Ironically, we're supposed to have an electrician do those things here..yeah, I know...you must think we're a socialist state from what I hear about the differences in our code requirements compared to other parts of the country.
                On boilers we're required to have CO detectors installed by licensed electricians..most older ones don't have one.
                I could just install it myself and attempt to pass it off as existing, but there's a can of worms I don't wanna get into, just asking the homeowner to keep hush around the inspector seems so cheesy.
                Last edited by DuckButter; 01-06-2008, 07:42 PM.

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                • #9
                  Re: Who's job is it?

                  I think you did good Duck. You followed through and took care of the customer. However, I would consider sending a bill to the electrician.
                  Anyone can tear a man down, few can build one up.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Who's job is it?

                    here in pa if it is a large new or renovation job there is a electrician to do all the power wiring and we do all the control stuff
                    if it is a call that came in to our company to change out or add equipment we do it all.
                    Charlie

                    My seek the peek fundraiser page
                    http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


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                    new work pictures 12/09
                    http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

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                    • #11
                      Re: Who's job is it?

                      Originally posted by Tyman View Post
                      I think you did good Duck. You followed through and took care of the customer. However, I would consider sending a bill to the electrician.
                      He's a good friend, I live 15 minutes from the job..he lives a lil' further, and most of all...I'm not about to start nickel & diming with him...we hook eachother up with alotta work...He's up on me on the scoreboard with a big job he set me up with a few months ago.
                      I tossed this thread out there for opinions...gain a broader perspective on what you guys do.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Who's job is it?

                        We (plumbers/hvac)can run line voltage from the disconnect to the appliance. We are allowed to change the disconnect but cannot install a new one. Not allowed to alter the main panel at all.
                        Buy cheap, buy twice.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Who's job is it?

                          Pretty much the same in D.C. as everyone else. We are allowed to work on low voltage (below 50 volts I think). We do a lot of conversions from the old gravity systems to forced circulation. New circuits to boilers need to be done by electricians on a separate permit. This is rarely done though. If we had to hire out a sparky to run 30 feet of BX for each install, profits would drop or pricing would be higher than my competetors.

                          Even with the advancement of control packages that makes wiring easy, some guys just choose not to mess with it. Unless you have a complex system like Hawk installed


                          (honestly, if I saw that on a job I might run away screaming like a little girl)

                          Wiring is typically the last thing done on a new install. I don't want to wait on the electrician to show up, do his work, then I have to wait around and baby sit the equipment for an hour. I like to be home before the sun goes down.

                          I no longer zone by valve anymore if I can help it. Prefer to zone by pump.
                          Last edited by plumberscrack; 06-15-2008, 11:36 AM.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Who's job is it?

                            I agree PC on the pump vs ZV, if the circ goes there's no heat anywhere.
                            If the zone pump goes, there's at least heat elsewhere.
                            The price difference in stock is close enough to where I prefer to do circs over ZV's.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Who's job is it?

                              We do it all to a point.
                              We're in a small town in Western New York, and we do work in PA as well. The only time we use an electrician is when we have to install something new in a plant. In those cases, our proposal would read, "power wiring by others." We leave it up to the customer to wire it with their own employees, or hire an electrician. The only place this may not be legal here is within the city (still a very small town) limits. Based on my limited contact with electricians in the area, I wouldn't want to have them doing any control wiring for me.
                              We are an HVAC company, and not plumbers. We do however install gas piping and boilers. I can't imagine how anybody gets anything done in markets where it's an absolute must to have plumbers do piping, electricians doing the wiring and an HAVC company doing only the tinwork, and physically placing the unit and checking it out on startup. How long would a basic residential installation take under those circumstances?

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