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  • Push Nuts (Push-In Wire Connectors)

    I'm installing a floor receptical in our library, which is a single outlet in a steel box with a brass protective cover. While I'm not opposed to using wire nuts, I've seen these Push-in type connectors (Ideal brand) which simply looks so much simpler and would seemingly take up less room, especially trying to twist three 12-guage solid wires together.

    But I recall a conversation a few years ago, with a friend who had recently become an electrician, that concluded that those push-in connections on the back of today's outlet recepticals, weren't as safe as using the terminal screws on the side. (Far too little contact area with the springs used in the "push-in" connection.) His 'opinion' was that in some areas they might not be acceptable.

    So, I've looked at these Ideal "Push-in Wire Connectors" and though they would be easier to use, than wire nuts, I'm struck by the same "spring-like contact" and am wondering if they are allowed for in-box connection of the hot and/or common wires, or should I just stick to my old-fashioned wire nuts?

    Thanks in advance,

    CWS

  • #2
    Re: Push Nuts (Push-In Wire Connectors)

    Are they allowed? Sure are. They are listed, so you can use them anywhere you would use a wire nut.

    That being said, I prefer the twist the wires tight then twist a wire on them connection myself. I like knowing that should the wire nut come off, which if you use quality ideal brand twisters or another quality nut they won't, that the wires will still be well connected and not arcing and sparking and causing fires in my customers homes or businesses.

    Jeff

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Push Nuts (Push-In Wire Connectors)

      Use wire nuts for all your connections. Scotchlock, Bucannan, Ideal etc. have withstood the test of time and are the most reliable way to splice wires. The push in type you are referring to (WAGO) rely only on spring contact for connection integrety and most electricians have had experience with "pop out's" at receptacles. This is what is called a "back stab". You push your wire (only 14 guage) into a hole in the back of the receptacle and a spring type connection is made internally. As time goes by the connection weakens and occasionally will "pop out" and cause an open connection.
      I am speaking from personal experience as I repair 3-5 pop outs each month on my service calls. Halo is now putting WAGO connectors on their can light wires, we cut them off and wire nut instead. The only advantage of push in connections is time,they are faster but not better. Sorry for this long missive but as with most things , you pay now or later.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Push Nuts (Push-In Wire Connectors)

        Thanks to you both for your prompt and honest opinions.

        I had my suspicions, and that's why I asked. All too often what appears to be a new easier solution, really isn't.

        Thanks again, I'll continue to use wire nuts,

        CWS

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Push Nuts (Push-In Wire Connectors)

          CWS

          If it may be helpful you can buy specification grade receptacles that back wire but rather than just pushing in the wires, you have to first loosen the screws, then push the wires under a clamping plate and finally tighten the screws. They work well when you have 2 wires per screw and all wires are the same gauge. These don't come cheap but then quality products need to be thought of as investments. A good example of what I have in mind would be the Hubbell HBL-5262 duplex receptacle. The HBL-5252 is not as costly and works well for light commercial use. This would be a better choice for at home. Both are duplex receptacles. You can get single receptacles in many configurations that are both side and back wire.

          For general connections I would go with the others and use wire nuts after twisting the wires together and cutting to proper length based on wire nut size.

          More info: http://www.hubbellcatalog.com/wiring.../section-a.pdf

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Push Nuts (Push-In Wire Connectors)

            Wousko,

            Actually I'm using a Hubbel HBL6236 Floor Receptacle that came complete with box, single-outlet receptacle, brass plate, and screw plug. I think the whole thing was about $20 or $25. (Top of page 24 in the catalog... which I didn't have, so Thanks!)

            With the house as old as it is (1887), I'm replacing wires and establishing new circuits as I go along. Right after we first bought the place, we had a new service installed upgrading the old 100 amp system to a 200 amp.

            Problem I've had so far is you can't find an electrician as they're all too busy. The electrician who originally quoted the new service job, and was given the go-ahead, never got back to us. I finally found another who did a terrific job, but I could never get him back he's so busy. I called several places when it came time to redo the kitchen and nobody was interested, so the contractor who did dry wall and cabinet installation went ahead and did it. It was obvious that he wasn't qualified and I've since had to do a couple of repairs, and now plan on replaing all of receptacles and properly establish new circuits.

            But for now, I'm working on the 2nd floor library, which is where this floor plate will be. Ran two new circuits up there while the floor was open. I thought these push-in connectors would be a time saver; but as usual, shortcuts, don't prove to be a good option. But that's why I love this forum, it's a great place to get worthy advice.

            So "Thanks" to everyone,

            CWS

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Push Nuts (Push-In Wire Connectors)

              CWS

              That's the way it seems to go anymore. People howl that they need more $$$ but offer them work and unless you are long term personal friends they say NO, I'm far too busy. I really think sometimes they are saying they just don't want to work, but they want us to hand them big $$$ on a platter.

              I looked up the HBL6236 and that should be nice. Be sure to keep the screw-in plug as it's a must when not in use to keep dirt and such out.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Push Nuts (Push-In Wire Connectors)

                Wousko,

                Thanks for the advice. Yes, we plan on keeping the screw cap in the drawer of the table that will sit over the outlet.

                We bought this house 2-1/2 years ago, with the objective of moving back to the old home town and also within a few blocks of our son's family and the grandsons. This is sort of the retirement home, as I lost my job out here after 30 years.

                I think I've met every over-priced, under skilled scoundrel in the county. Shoddy work, over ego'd, and just plain theives. Reached the point last summer where I was actually filing complaints with the local enforcement folks and the BBB. Problem is that there's no regulation or even a channel that is willing to act as a clearing house for these guys. So, you get ripped off and they simply move on, often change their name and go immediately back into business. I'm now pushing for legislature with the city board and a local union representative. I doubt that I'll be successful though... just too much resistance.

                So I'm at a point where I trust no one, and will learn what I need to in order to do the job. Thankfully, my Dad was in the trades and I learned a lot from him, though it was long ago. So, I'm catching up on the local codes and better work practices. While having some skills, I can only work as long as my neck will hold out (injury a few years ago). So, I travel down there as often as I can, work a few days and then return here and try to recover before I return. Biggest challenge for me is just recognizing that I can do these things, and not be so hesitant about it, and then pace myself.

                CWS

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Push Nuts (Push-In Wire Connectors)

                  CWS i use the push in type connectors when making a connection in a 4x4 box or a control panel but nor in an outlet box there is not much room and like the others said i don't want it to come apart when pushing the outlet or switch back in
                  Charlie

                  My seek the peek fundraiser page
                  http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


                  http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

                  new work pictures 12/09
                  http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Push Nuts (Push-In Wire Connectors)

                    Originally posted by HVAC HAWK View Post
                    CWS i use the push in type connectors when making a connection in a 4x4 box or a control panel but nor in an outlet box there is not much room and like the others said i don't want it to come apart when pushing the outlet or switch back in
                    Can I ask what diffrence the kind of box makes? If you are afraid of it coming apart in a device box, then you agree they can come apart, so what is the diffrence in what kind of box it comes apart in?

                    I just don't trust those in any situation. They have proven they will come apart, and that is just a fire waiting to happen, or best case a trouble call that takes some hunting to find a faulty connector.

                    Jeff

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Push Nuts (Push-In Wire Connectors)

                      Charlie was referring to push in connections on a device that is subjected to pressures such as outlets that are plugged into. The outlet could flex and make the push in connection loosen up. His ref. to a 4x4 is for junction purposes only where there would be no flexing or pressure applied to the components. I personally never use any kind of push connections.
                      info for all: http://www.hoistman.com http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/index....wwtoolinfoforu --- "I like long walks, especially when they are taken by people who annoy me."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Push Nuts (Push-In Wire Connectors)

                        Originally posted by papadan View Post
                        Charlie was referring to push in connections on a device that is subjected to pressures such as outlets that are plugged into. The outlet could flex and make the push in connection loosen up. His ref. to a 4x4 is for junction purposes only where there would be no flexing or pressure applied to the components. I personally never use any kind of push connections.
                        thanks dan
                        i dont use the push ins on the outlets i use the push nuts but not in a 2x4 box with a switch or recpt there is not enough room
                        Charlie

                        My seek the peek fundraiser page
                        http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


                        http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

                        new work pictures 12/09
                        http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Push Nuts (Push-In Wire Connectors)

                          I believe stab-in receptacles no longer made to accept 12 gauge wire.
                          I think I'll stick with screw on connectors.

                          Of course I was one of those guys that said you'll never see plastic pipe
                          in my house!

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