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  • NEC08 questions...

    I'll start by saying, yes, I am NOT an electrician, but I will say, if it wasnt for rediculas requirements to be one in MN, I would be, but anyway.

    My questions are on the new NEC 08 changes, primarily having to deal with the new Arch-fault requirements. My understanding is that all circuits must be protected by the new (highly expensive ) arch-fault protected breakers. No big deal, but he is my question. There is a house we are working on, that was a builders forclosure, it was framed, roofed, windows in, roughed in and insulated, and that is the point the builder went belly up. The customer is doing his own electrical, but had a few questions, and I said I would look into them.

    1.) The Dishwasher and Disposal were both run on seperate curcuits, but was fed with a 14-3 romex run. I know you cant use an arch-fault on a curcuit sharing a neutral, so, what can he do in this case? Just use one lag only and put the Dishwasher and Disposal on the same curcuit and not use one of the hot leads? The same was done for the furnace and sump pump. Luckly, this was the only 2 curcuits in the entire house that were run this way, all of the rest of feed lines were done without sharing neutrals!

    2.) Do GFCI curcuits also need the AFCI in the panel? What I mean is that the outlet will be a GFCI outlet, but do you have to put a AFCI breaker on the curcuit as well? To me this doesnt make sense, but I know that the AFCI is more of a precaution for drilling into a wire in the wall, to which the GFCI outlet is point less in this case. And in my understanding of the "need" for the AFCI was just that.

    3.)Last questions has nothing to do with AFCI, but there is two leads that are run into the basement, one on one end, the other on the opposite side. All that is written on one of them is "WP", and the other says "Load WP". What the heck does "WP" mean? I am guessing "wall plug" as I have no idea what else it would mean. I was able to decifer the rest of the abbreviations for the home owner, but this one didnt make sense to me. I am guessing they are suppose to end up together, and are most likely ment to be the power for the basement lighting as well. (unfinished basement)

    And contacting the original electrican probably wont happen, as they probably got stiffed by the previous home builder on the project, I am sure they could careless if they stepped in this house again.

    With that said, I really hope that this housing slump continues to weed out incompetent morons like the idiots that started this house. It seriously is one of the worst framing jobs I have ever seen, I mean over the top terrible. No wonder this company went belly up in 06. This house has been sitting without siding and being finished for almost 2 years. Heck, its not even back filled yet!

    Thanks for your help!

  • #2
    Re: NEC08 questions...

    No one?

    I go answers to my AFCI questions... but still am trying to figure out what the "WP" stands for. I found another wire hanging in the basement as well, and again, it says "WP LOAD" on it. So, there is 2 wires hanging with "WP Load" written on them, and one with just "WP" on it.

    Any of you electricians use this abbreviation?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: NEC08 questions...

      Hi there,
      Are you in a rural location with the building you're writing about? Could it be WP for Well Pump? Take care.
      Jim Don

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: NEC08 questions...

        I'll take a stab at it, and I bet I turn up correct.

        Since you found two locations that both say "WP Load" on them I will venture a guess and say those are the load sides of a GFCI. And as there are two, I would also bet that if they are just hanging in the basement, if you look what is above them outside you will find outdoor recepticles.

        "WP load"= weatherproof load

        Run them to the load side of a gfci. I know of many companies that do it like this. They drop them into the basement and use the gfci under the panel to protect the circuit.

        Jeff

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: NEC08 questions...

          Is the 08 been adopted in your area, yet? unless it has then jsut met the code that is the current adopted code. (jsut because it is written does not mean the local jurisdiction has adopted it yet or the state),

          http://www.mncodes.org/electrical.html If this site is current it says your still under the 2005 code but I would check with the local jurisdiction to see for sure which code your under.
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          • #6
            Re: NEC08 questions...

            The 2008 code mandates that all breakers be AFCI???

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            • #7
              Re: NEC08 questions...

              Originally posted by khe View Post
              The 2008 code mandates that all breakers be AFCI???
              NO! Most of them.

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              • #8
                Re: NEC08 questions...

                You only need arc-fault breakers on BEDROOM circuits only, not all circuits. ONLY BEDROOM circuits. As for the WP. Could mean well pump.

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                • #9
                  Re: NEC08 questions...

                  2008 210.12 .......family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, or similar rooms or areas shall be protected by a listed arc-fault circuit interrupter......

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                  • #10
                    Re: NEC08 questions...

                    Originally posted by piette View Post
                    I'll take a stab at it, and I bet I turn up correct.

                    Since you found two locations that both say "WP Load" on them I will venture a guess and say those are the load sides of a GFCI. And as there are two, I would also bet that if they are just hanging in the basement, if you look what is above them outside you will find outdoor recepticles.

                    "WP load"= weatherproof load

                    Run them to the load side of a gfci. I know of many companies that do it like this. They drop them into the basement and use the gfci under the panel to protect the circuit.

                    Jeff
                    ding ding ding! The stupid thing is though, the panel is in the garage... My guess they were going to just put a GFI outlet in the basement, as it was to be a unfinished basement.
                    Last edited by Alphacowboy; 04-04-2008, 11:09 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Re: NEC08 questions...

                      Originally posted by drsparky View Post
                      2008 210.12 .......family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, or similar rooms or areas shall be protected by a listed arc-fault circuit interrupter......
                      I'm not doubting the code requirement but it sure seems like an overkill to me to require AFCIs basically everywhere that GFCIs are not used...

                      The price of copper has tripled in the last few years which increases the cost of wiring a house, now this... Add another $1500 to the cost of a service entrance.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: NEC08 questions...

                        Originally posted by khe View Post
                        I'm not doubting the code requirement but it sure seems like an overkill to me to require AFCIs basically everywhere that GFCIs are not used...

                        The price of copper has tripled in the last few years which increases the cost of wiring a house, now this... Add another $1500 to the cost of a service entrance.

                        crazy isnt it!? But, what can ya do about it....

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: NEC08 questions...

                          First thing I would do is find both ends of each wire.So far we have three ends,gotta be at least one more ya think? The lengths of the wire and where it could end up might be a hint also.
                          I did get proved wrong on one thing tho. My county only requires arc fault in bed rooms,according to the 2008 code it is every 110 volt outlet 15 or 20 amp.

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