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Whirlpool Question

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  • Whirlpool Question

    I dont know if this is a plumbing or electrical question, but I am working on a house that the customer decided to install a whirlpool tub instead of the spec'd out soaking tub. The house is a week away from closing, so its all buttoned up. The customer did his own electrical (the house was roughed in prior to him buyin it) so he ran a wire through the attic and to the panel, and installed a GFCI outlet for it too plug into. Thats not the part that I am worried about for the final though, as that all looks to code. The issue is, that the plumber, or customer didnt run a grounding cable for the tub like I have seen in older remodels. The thing is though, that the house is all plumbed with PEX and the tub is all plastic, there is no copper on it to ground to, and there doesnt appear to even have a grounding block or connection on the motor housing. Am I missing something or do I need to have him run a ground cable too?

    If this is suppose to be in the electrical section, please move it mods.

  • #2
    Re: Whirlpool Question

    Originally posted by Alphacowboy View Post
    I dont know if this is a plumbing or electrical question, but I am working on a house that the customer decided to install a whirlpool tub instead of the spec'd out soaking tub. The house is a week away from closing, so its all buttoned up. The customer did his own electrical (the house was roughed in prior to him buyin it) so he ran a wire through the attic and to the panel, and installed a GFCI outlet for it too plug into. Thats not the part that I am worried about for the final though, as that all looks to code. The issue is, that the plumber, or customer didnt run a grounding cable for the tub like I have seen in older remodels. The thing is though, that the house is all plumbed with PEX and the tub is all plastic, there is no copper on it to ground to, and there doesnt appear to even have a grounding block or connection on the motor housing. Am I missing something or do I need to have him run a ground cable too?

    If this is suppose to be in the electrical section, please move it mods.
    The ground wire needs to come all the way from the panel which is grounded. (ufer and grounding rod?)

    Mark
    "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

    I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Whirlpool Question

      I am just curious, but if the wire ran to the hot tub is 12-2 with a ground, why does an additional ground have to be run in addition? At least from what I gather that is the case. Its just a 120v application, not 240v, so black is positive, white is neg. and ground is ground. Cant this ground not be attached to the grounding block and sufice? Or am I missing something? The unit is a plug in model with a 3 prong plug as well.

      Comment


      • #4
        Whirlpool Question

        Sorry, i posted this question in the wrong forum, as for some reason I thought the plumber would have ran the grounding wire....

        Anyway, my issue is this http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/sho...220#post146220 and if you could take a look and respond I would greatly appreciate it!


        Thanks!!!!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Whirlpool Question

          Originally posted by Alphacowboy View Post
          I am just curious, but if the wire ran to the hot tub is 12-2 with a ground, why does an additional ground have to be run in addition? At least from what I gather that is the case. Its just a 120v application, not 240v, so black is positive, white is neg. and ground is ground. Cant this ground not be attached to the grounding block and sufice? Or am I missing something? The unit is a plug in model with a 3 prong plug as well.
          It's really more of a question for our Electricians on the Forum but I believe you are required to run a separate 8ga. wire unbroken from the panel to the tub. At least that's what mine in our master bath is and it too is 120 volt plug in.

          Mark
          "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

          I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Whirlpool Question

            I would like to see how the electricians are getting their cold water bond off the motor if the structure is plumbed in plastic.
            We need a 10' "WHIP" of copper off the water service to get the panel water bonded.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Whirlpool Question

              I believe if the pipes are all pex and there is no copper at the tub, then it does not need to be bonded to the water pipes. If the motor itself also does not have a lug on it, then it won't need to be bonded either. Those types of motors are usually called "Double insulated" I believe. If there's no copper in the water system, why would you need to bond it? Also, in non-low voltage wiring (such as the whirlpool) we refer to the wiring as hot (black) and neutral (white), instead of positive and negative.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Whirlpool Question

                Well, he installed a 6ga stranded wire from the tub (found the grounding terminal) to the panel. Passed with flying colors! Thanks guys!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Whirlpool Question

                  Can anybody tell me why there needs to be 2 grounds . I did a whirlpool with 2 wire bx to a gfi outlet the bx act like a ground but . I needed to have a separate ground wire 8g to the panel . why to grounds?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Whirlpool Question

                    that is 2 grounds

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Whirlpool Question

                      If you have copper piping all the way, you don't have to go back to the panel, just to a cold water copper pipe.

                      Also it is not two grounds. The one to the receptacle is a ground, the one coming off the motor is for bonding.

                      Jeff

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Whirlpool Question

                        Originally posted by piette View Post
                        If you have copper piping all the way, you don't have to go back to the panel, just to a cold water copper pipe.

                        Also it is not two grounds. The one to the receptacle is a ground, the one coming off the motor is for bonding.

                        Jeff
                        What do you do when you make a ground connection to a copper cold water pipe in an installation like this? Do you verify that the ground is contiguous back to the panel or just assume so? If you are connecting to existing wiring and did not install the system yourself it would seem you should not be trusting in someone else's work, especially in this day when everyone does so much work for themselves and may not be well versed on code requirements.
                        ---------------
                        Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
                        ---------------
                        “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
                        ---------
                        "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
                        ---------
                        sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Whirlpool Question

                          Originally posted by Bob D. View Post
                          What do you do when you make a ground connection to a copper cold water pipe in an installation like this? Do you verify that the ground is contiguous back to the panel or just assume so? If you are connecting to existing wiring and did not install the system yourself it would seem you should not be trusting in someone else's work, especially in this day when everyone does so much work for themselves and may not be well versed on code requirements.
                          I would expect you would be careful in today's sue happy climate, but do you really think that more people do work for themselves than in the past? My dad did all of the simple repairs around our house; and one set of my grandparents built their house from scratch. The other set built the second floor and 1/2 of the first floor onto an existing house; and 2 of my great grandfathers built their houses from scratch.

                          Sorry to hijack the thread.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Whirlpool Question

                            "... but do you really think that more people do work for themselves than in the past?..."

                            Absolutely. I believe more people now-a-days think that watching a couple hours of TV DIY (Destroy It Yourself) and they are a little braver than they were before all these DIY shows so now they will try stuff they shouldn't be messing with. I would be leery of buying ANY existing home w/o a complete comprehensive inspection. After seeing some of the stuff people bury behind walls you just don't know what you are buying any more.
                            Last edited by Bob D.; 07-14-2008, 05:35 PM.
                            ---------------
                            Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
                            ---------------
                            “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
                            ---------
                            "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
                            ---------
                            sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Whirlpool Question

                              Ok ground and bond, but my question is why, Is it safer to do both ,if so why. like ,if I lose the ground ,or something ,can somebody elaborate ..

                              Comment

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