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Disclaimer; Stupid Girl Question

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  • #16
    Re: Disclaimer; Stupid Girl Question

    If you are charged based on demand hours you need to get the exact details and adjust your peak usage to be outside their peak charge times. This is simple for most residential customers as the peak charges are usually during working hours, for your situation not so easy. You may have to switch laundry to Sat/Sun only or toss in a load each night after 6 (or whenever peak demand is over).
    Dishwasher only runs outside peak hours, limit the A/C during the day, hot water heater on a timer, turn off the A/C in the man cave etc.

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    • #17
      Re: Disclaimer; Stupid Girl Question

      turn off the A/C in the man cave
      Hey, thems fighting words, you better watch it bub.
      ---------------
      Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
      ---------------
      “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
      ---------
      "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
      ---------
      sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

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      • #18
        Re: Disclaimer; Stupid Girl Question

        The justification for demand billing is that the power company has to build and maintain infrastructure and generating capacity to support the peak demand. Demand billing is a way to try to get high-demand users to pay for some of this excess capacity. The more palatable effect is that it encourages people to spread their demand out to limit the peak.

        If you have demand billing the main thing to watch for is not to have multiple high-demand appliances on at the same time. A/C, water heating, cooking, clothes drying -- these are typical heavy loads which you can try to distribute or defer.

        Some utilities offer discount rates if you volunteer to have an automatic load-shedding device installed on your A/C. As their demand approaches a limit, a signal is sent out to selectively turn off some of these units for a few minutes.

        I doubt you'll be able to negotiate your bill unless you're qualified for some kind of hardship program. If the problem is in their equipment, you would have a case, but their responsibility basically ends at the meter, so if they have a problem it won't show up on your meter anyway.

        Of course, it doesn't hurt to ask . . .

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        • #19
          Re: Disclaimer; Stupid Girl Question

          If she gets an electrician to come with a good clamp-on AC Ammeter he/she can shut off all circuit breakers except for one and measure current. Then shut that one off and go to the next. If no devices are plugged in or switched on, but there is current draw on a given circuit then it's worth some efforts to find what's causing the load.

          As for demand metering in some areas the electric utility also adjusts your KWHr rate based on your monthly usage. Let's say that for your type of home and service the normal is 2500 KWHr / month during the months of heavy use, but during one month you log up close to 3500 your rate for the year goes up. This is mostly in areas where things are bad and conserving has to be done big time. In most cases a demand meter is more for commercial customers and logs peak demand (sometimes for just one second) over a given period. 15 minutes is common. If you have too high a demand during peak times you end up paying fines for system overloading.

          Question: If you look at your bills over the last several months and especially if you can compare the same month but one year ago, has your monthly total use gone up much? If yes, you really would want to find out why. It may be new loads, or it might be leakage.

          I got to thinking about the main breaker tripping. Please look around for any electronic devices including simple ones. Have any been damaged over the past month? Could it be that you had several heavy loads try to startup at the same time? Do you have an electric stove, water heater, house heat, unit heater for garage, central AC, clothes dryer? Let's say something wild happened where your water heater kicked on, the clothes dryer was in use, the stove had several burners on or the oven was on and then the central AC started up. Those loads along with others can result in a main breaker tripping. Many are just magnetic type and won't hold during minor overloads. The branch circuit breakers are thermal magnetic (good ones) and will hold a few seconds under a reasonable overload to allow for motor starting. Another issue might be a poor connection at the main breaker causing heat during high demands. If they get hot, normally they will trip.

          OK Put simple, please do yourself and family a big favor and have a good electrician come by to discuss things and to also check for anything that needs fixing. Checking grounds and for stray or strange Voltages is worthwhile.

          Sorry for too much PLPLPL. My main point is that you shouldn't take risks. By making sure things inside your house and garage are in good order then you have more to go on.

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          • #20
            Re: Disclaimer; Stupid Girl Question

            Thanks for all the replies. This has been very informative!


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            • #21
              Re: Disclaimer; Stupid Girl Question

              A previous poster stated that when the main is tripped that it just goes from on to off. The lights wouldnt flicker.
              For that reason, I really do believe that my daughter is the cause of the main being tripped. I kinda recall her being in the laundry room at the time that it happened.
              Even though the switch is a little stiff and hard (ooooh, that didnt sound too good, huh?) for a three year old to flip, believe me when I say, there is nothing in this world that can stop this kid when from doing anything she sets her mind to do!

              However, just to play it safe, I will have an electrician look at it.

              I have one more question though! My microwave, an over the stove micro, is on the same breaker that one of the back bedrooms is on. Anytime the micro is on and my older daughter turns on the hairdryer, it trips the breaker. What is up with that?

              Im sorry, but I just thought of something else to ask...Why is it that when I plug in the vacuum to certain outlets, the lights dim for a brief moment?

              I apologize if I am being bothersome.

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              • #22
                Re: Disclaimer; Stupid Girl Question

                a microwave and a hair dryer are both high wattage devices.

                lets just say that they are both 1200 watts which should be pretty close.

                1200 watts = 1200/120 volts=10 amps.

                normal breakers are typically 15 amp or 20 amp.

                so when 2- 1200 watt devices are running at the same time that would put you at 20 amps.

                rule of thumb is that a 20 amp breaker should only be sized at a 80% load. so 20 amps should have a 16 amp load sizing. and 15 amp should be 12 amp.

                microwaves require their own dedicated breaker.

                sounds like your wiring has been daisy chained from room to room.

                remember that plumbers now enough about power to be dangerous

                rick.
                phoebe it is

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                • #23
                  Re: Disclaimer; Stupid Girl Question

                  remember that plumbers now enough about power to be dangerous
                  The thing is, the only wiring in this home that was done by a non-elec. was the wire that was ran to the workshop!

                  As far as I know, this house was never wired with a breaker that was dedicated to the micro. There is no mention of it on the inside of the panel. However, the breaker that currently runs the micro was wired with the intent of running 'lighting +hood'. Of course, we replaced the hood vent with the micro.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Disclaimer; Stupid Girl Question

                    the hood and vent was a low wattage unit the microwave is not, and now when the hair dryer is clicked on the breaker clicks off ,(DOING IT"S JOB) of protecting the circuits wiring from being over loaded, If the hood and vent were still there there probably would not be an issue, as you would not have two high wattage items on the same circuit.

                    (and there are "weak" breakers that trip before they should), usually because they have been tripped to many times, but like Rick stated the simple is the hair dryer and the microwave is more than likely just over loading the circuit, (have Daughter use dryer on a different circuit, she will survive.)

                    as far as the lights dimming, the lights and the plug are on the same circuit, other plugs may not be on the same circuit as some of the lighting,
                    dimming is usually caused by the lowering of the voltage, and when a higher amp appliance is used it pulls more power, and in the process it may cause the voltage to drop a little thus the lights dimming, (most of the time this is caused by wiring that may not be as heavy as it may need to be, or a longer than recommended run of wire, could be caused by a loose connection as well)


                    My guess is it is just that the vacuum is on the same circuit as the lights and your noticing it, (unless it is a considerable dimming), I would really doubt if any thing is wrong. yes there is a small voltage drop taking place but probably not an issue. (it just depends on how much dimming is taking place) If your going to call a electrician to check out things, have the vacuum ready and show him and see if he thinks it is abnormal.
                    (I went back up and it looks like you stated you have 20 amp breakers, and on 20 amp breakers and 12 wire, I would not think you would have hardly any noticeable voltage drop, unless there are a lot of other things running on that circuit as well),
                    Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
                    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                    "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
                    attributed to Samuel Johnson
                    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                    PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Disclaimer; Stupid Girl Question

                      I called JEA (my power people) today to ask about the demand usage and according to the girl I spoke with, we are billed per kwh. I know for a fact that I can view the history from the last 12 mos., but I think it may even go back as far as 2 years. If not, I found a printout yesterday that shows the billed usage from '06 and '07. Between those and what I can view from their website, I should be able to get a pretty good idea of whether or not there has been a steady increase.

                      Ok, I am looking at the printout right now and the July '06 bill said we used 2538 kwh. Our Sept '06 bill was 3178 kwh.

                      Arent lights and appliances and such measured by watts? How may watts are in a kilowatt? Is it normal to jump up that many kwh's without there being anything significant to have caused it? See, what is weird is that in one of the hottest months in Florida, we used around 600 kwh less. Back then, we still had our old crappy 2.5 ton 10 seer condenser that ran all day, every day, never shutting off. September isnt a whole lot cooler than July, but it is definitely not as hot or humid. Not to mention, the kids arent home all day because they would be back in school, which means that the computer, tv, xbox, playstation, etc... werent running all day. Soooooooo, based on the limited info I gave, doesnt it seem weird that it jumped up THAT much?

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                      • #26
                        Re: Disclaimer; Stupid Girl Question

                        Killo Watt or Kilo anything = 1000 of them. In computer talk it's 1024 but that doesn't apply in your case.

                        KWHr or Kilo Watt Hour = 1000 Watts of energy for one hour of time. It can be 10 Watts over 100 hours or 1,000,000 Watts for 1/1000 hour. You don't dare have that much load but it's the same amount of electrical energy used.

                        I think you have some wild loads in your place that are hard to think of or account for. Please just call in a good electrician and have him/her check for leakage and also check current draw of your major appliances and your Air Conditioner. Something seems wrong and you need to find out what gives. Please don't play the Penny Wise & Dollar Foolish game. In the end you'll loose.

                        As for your billing, you need to check actual meter readings for say June, July and August of 2007, 2008 and this year. Also, check your bills for April, May and June this year. Was there a major jump in usage? You may have a compound issue as to the $$$ of the bills. For months where you are over 2500 KWHr they may be fining you for excess use. I know where I am they allow so much per month based on what kind of house, how many people are in it and what kinds of loads you have. If you suddenly have say a 25% increase above your limit you end up paying for it with high rates and an overload fine. The electrician should be able to figure out if you have set use limits and also if your meter logs peek demand every X minutes.
                        Last edited by Woussko; 07-22-2009, 11:29 PM.

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                        • #27
                          Re: Disclaimer; Stupid Girl Question

                          question,
                          you replaced the AC,
                          is it larger than the old unit?

                          if this unit is cycling then my guess it is larger, even tho it may be more efficient, it may still be using more electricity,


                          but even if the new AC is more efficient, it may still take more power to operate,
                          Example, say the old unit was a one "Unit of cooling", saying it took 1000 watts to operate, now the new unit may be 1 1/2 "units of cooling" , and more efficient say 900 watts "unit unit of cooling" but 1 1/2 units are 1350 watts of power to operate.
                          thus costing more to operate, but in the trade your getting more cooling.

                          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                          how many refrigerators do you have, freezers,

                          I felt my electrical bill was high and could not figure how I could use so much,

                          I got a KWH meter and started to check the various appliance, and let them run for a month connected to it and got an idea of the usage it took,

                          I was surprised, how much the older refrigeration units took,
                          Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
                          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                          "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
                          attributed to Samuel Johnson
                          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                          PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Disclaimer; Stupid Girl Question

                            BTW, search Google for killawatt, you should be able to find a cheap usage meter that can help you figure out where you power goes.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Disclaimer; Stupid Girl Question

                              $450.00 a month. I have never had an electric bill over $75.00 I can't imagine paying half of what my mortgage payment is in an electric bill. I would hire a wire guy to come check it out. If they can get your bill down to $180.00 it would be worth it.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Disclaimer; Stupid Girl Question

                                $450.00 a month.
                                Yeah, that's what I'm talking about!!!!

                                However, that $450 a mo. includes both elec. and water/sewage.

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