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  • transformers (not the movie!)

    hey there!

    is the distance between a transformer and the fixture it feeds?

    for example, it i have a 100' run of 16awg. at one end i put a 12v transformer. 100' away i have a socket with an mr16. the transformer is say 35w and the bulb is also 35w.

    then if i feed the transformer 120v, once lit, will the intensity be the same if the transformer is 'next' (less than a ft) to the socket of it doesn't matter at all?

    thanks!

  • #2
    Re: transformers (not the movie!)

    I believe using 16AWG your voltage at 100' would drop from 12 volts to approximately 9.5 volts.

    Mark
    "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

    I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: transformers (not the movie!)

      so there is a correlation between the location of the transfprmer and the device it powers! is there a formula?

      thanks!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: transformers (not the movie!)

        Originally posted by HornyPotter View Post
        so there is a correlation between the location of the transfprmer and the device it powers! is there a formula?

        thanks!
        http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm
        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: transformers (not the movie!)

          HP

          The wire has resistance. The issue is with Voltage drop in the long wire run. If you were to use #12 wire there would be less resistance and also lower Voltage drop.

          Let me see if I understand you. Are you wanting to power a 35 Watt, 12 Volt lamp (light bulb) that is 100 feet from your transformer? Is the secondary output of the transformer 12 Volts? If yes and you want the lamp to be nice and bright then you need to have minimal Voltage drop and thus pretty heavy wire is needed.

          Question: Can you relocate the transformer closer to the lamp? If yes that will really help you. It's not the transformer, but rather the resistance in 200 feet (total) of wire that will cause the Voltage drop and dim lighting.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: transformers (not the movie!)

            First things first...WHAT is the application?

            Sounds like low-voltage outdoor lighting is the intended function.
            ---------------
            Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
            ---------------
            “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
            ---------
            "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
            ---------
            sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: transformers (not the movie!)

              H P

              Here is part 2 and please reply.

              Do you have everything for this project now, or will some of it be purchased later? With a 12 Volt 35 Watt lamp, you'll have slightly less than 3 Amperes of current if you were to connect it close to a 12 Volt transformer provided the output really is close to 12 Volts. Now if you want to have the lamp 100 feet away from the transformer and not end up needing to use heavy gauge and thus costly wire, there is a way to cheat if you don't yet have the transformer. You can get one rated for more than your load requirements and with about a 15 Volt output. Now if you loose 3 Volts in your long wire run, you still have 12 Volts at the lamp and nice bright light. This is not the right way to do things, but it can save some $$$. On the other hand 200 feet of #12 wire or 100 feet of 12-2 isn't going to bankrupt you.

              Put simple, please tell more and if you could relocate things.


              Bob D - I bet you have it. It might be for low Voltage track lighting and I best not express myself on what I think of that.
              Last edited by Woussko; 07-26-2009, 03:39 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: transformers (not the movie!)

                LV Track lighting is a possibility but the 100 foot wire runs is what has me thinking outdoor lighting. Maybe they are looking to locate the xfmrs to the track lighting in a wiring closet or in the basement near the breaker panel. Just not clear to me in the OP.
                ---------------
                Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
                ---------------
                “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
                ---------
                "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
                ---------
                sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: transformers (not the movie!)

                  hey guys!

                  thanks for all the QUICK answers!

                  i understand that everything depends on the application... so here we are.

                  i have an old house. in one of my double living room (15x15 twice), i have an 11' ceiling. on that ceiling tehere is a beautiful medaillon and lots of crwon mouding and plasters moulding on the ceiling. a real jewel.

                  when i redid that room, i did not take the ceiling off. i wanted to keep that victorian look. there were plenty of romex which i simple cut and left it there with its ceramic isolators. this romex is now dead.

                  since is was almost impossible to fish new 14awg i decided to go with 16awg since all i wanted was to feed 4 x 35w mr16 bulbs. i did not want to put the transformers inside the closed ceiling (i'm kinda paranoid about fire in a 100yo plus house).

                  anyway the longer of the shorter is that i only fed the sockets with wires from the basement. in the basement, i've connected the transformers and there was light... not too bright! there are 2 transformer of 50w each to feed 2 x 35w bulbs each.

                  i've been thinking to bump the transformer to at least 70w but i (then) doubt that it would help much...

                  other than re-wireing the room... what is it that i can do to brighten my nights?

                  i do not need much lumen there... but at least enough to read...

                  thanks again!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: transformers (not the movie!)

                    OK, now we (or at least I) can understand the situation a bit better.

                    there are 2 transformer of 50w each to feed 2 x 35w bulbs each.
                    So you have two xfmrs (transformers) with 50W out each. And each of
                    those has a load of (2) 35W lamps or 70W total per xfmr. So right away
                    right out of the box without allowing for voltage drop or any other loss
                    you are underpowered.
                    ---------------
                    Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
                    ---------------
                    “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
                    ---------
                    "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
                    ---------
                    sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: transformers (not the movie!)

                      bingo! that's what i have.

                      i am not 100% sure that by bumping the transformer to 70 or 100w it'll help the situation...

                      now.. maybe i could replace the mr16 by a led base recessed light but led is not a warm setup... too blue for my liking!

                      thanks for ur help!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: transformers (not the movie!)

                        Let's for now only think of what's in the very nice room. Is there a single track with 4 lamp heads on it? If that's the case you really have a single load of 140 Watts. Maybe I'm not in the right gear. Could you have 4 lamp heads and each of them is separate from the others?

                        2) Regardless of what you have if your transformers are rated at 50 Watts max and you want to power 2 x 35 Watts you have overloaded transformers and that's bad news.

                        You have several options depending on how you have to deal with connecting up the 4 lamps heads.

                        Can I/we assume there is a single track with 4 heads on it, or is that wrong thinking? If it is correct then you really need to get yourself a transformer that for safety is rated 12 Volts and 200 Watts or more. Never load one to the max, please.

                        Now on the other hand let's assume HP has been very busy and run 4 wire runs down to the basement. He wants to connect the loads up as 2 loads where each is 12 Volts and 70 Watts. This is because of having (2) 50Watt transformers now. That will result in overloading of both transformers. Here is a third way. There are 2 wire runs and each of them has 2 lamp heads connected. Again, the transformers will get overloaded.

                        You could operate just one 35 Watt lamp off each transformer, but I'm sure that's not what you want to end up with.

                        HINT: If you can do so without too much effort, please post some good pictures of this project. Seeing images tells more than thousands of words can.

                        By the way the halogen bulbs put out far better light than any LEDs can for your application. You want the nice 3000K - 3500K color temp and broad spectrum range.

                        We will figure this out over time. For now you may want to check out a 200 Watt transformer. Be sure to also get and use in-line fuse holders with 10 Amp type 3AG fuses in them. The big transformer can put out enough current to burn up #16 wire easy in case of a short circuit. For fun I tried this with a 300 Watt 12 Volt outdoor lighting transformer that I have. Fusing is a must.

                        Question: From where you can place the transformer(s) to where the lamp heads or track is, how long of a piece of 16-2 cord do you really need to use? Is there just one run or several? Keep in mind that if push comes to shove we can think of this like an emergency lighting system with remote lamp head and actually some little cute halogen emergency lamp heads and mounting plates might actually be to your liking.

                        Question: Do you have a track with 4 heads on it in the room?

                        I know this is loads of my going PLPLPL but I'm trying to figure out what you currently really have and want to end up with.
                        Last edited by Woussko; 07-26-2009, 04:56 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: transformers (not the movie!)

                          hey woussko!

                          i'll go ahead and get pictures of the ceiling and i'll draw a wireing diag of the set... it'll be there by tomorrow!

                          thanks for you time to all of you!

                          cheers!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: transformers (not the movie!)

                            Originally posted by HornyPotter View Post
                            hey woussko!

                            i'll go ahead and get pictures of the ceiling and i'll draw a wireing diag of the set... it'll be there by tomorrow!

                            thanks for you time to all of you!

                            cheers!
                            HP That will be grrrreat. Right now I think Bob and I are trying to figure what you have, but we really want to be sure too. In any case you really need to try hard not to overload transformers. Think on the safe side so they don't burn up on you sometime.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: transformers (not the movie!)

                              Originally posted by Woussko View Post
                              ... Think on the safe side so they don't burn up on you sometime.
                              they've been disconnected for quite some time now...

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