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  • #16
    Re: Old 220V Outlet repurposing...

    Originally posted by jimboburnsy View Post
    That's true, but I'm not sure it makes economic sense to pull the oversized, in situ wiring that is exactly where I need it to be. The pitch of my roof over that part of the house makes fishing through the riser and walls a real pain and to access that portion of the attic I have to REALLY, REALLY want to.

    If there isn't a problem with re-purposing that I'm missing, it seems to be the superior option. (didn't I just say that spending $.90 was too inconvenient?)
    I guess being a code violation is not really worth doing it the right way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Old 220V Outlet repurposing...

      Originally posted by jimboburnsy View Post
      Marking tape would necessitate spending about $.30 in gas and then $.60 on tape. Too inconvenient.
      LMAO ... Come on and get some and get some red and white too. You should have black electrical tape around regardless. The issue I have with long bare wires is what if it touched a hot zone by error? I'm sure you try to do good work but please keep things where they should be.

      As for pulling new wire, there is nothing wrong with using #8 wire and a 20 Amp breaker as long as you do good splicing with proper wire nuts and then tape them too.

      Put simple SAFETY FIRST and code next. Some things in the code simply don't make sense in all cases and especially where safety isn't an issue. I use 12-2 with ground Romex for lighting circuits and while a 20 Amp breaker is fine, I use a 15 Amp one because of switch ratings and to give a little extra safety. Now if I had a serious lighting load, then it's 20 Amp breaker and 20 Amp spec grade switches.
      Last edited by Woussko; 08-17-2009, 08:32 PM.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Old 220V Outlet repurposing...

        your having some some issues on the legality (code) of the re purposing with the ground,

        I think part of the issue is say some one sees this wire in the attic in 10 years or so, and says I need a new out let over there, so I will just use this wire and splice in a box, and splice off it it there is enough slack so lets go for it, and they get into the box and there is this red wire, (which you have converted to the ground), and they say hu, I guess we can get two circuits off of this, well just fudge on the grounds as there is not one and they tie into it and have a disaster or power up the ground side of the circuits with energized power creating a hazard, (yes it would probably be quickly found and resolved, but then it could kill some one in the process by energizing some appliance from the ground), (even tho it may be "grounded" it may not trip the breaker, depending on the other "short cuts" that may have been made over time),

        yes the likely hood of it happening is not great, but a possibility,

        If your pulling the old out one can many times just hook on to the old and pull the new in when it is coming out, and saves a lot of fishing of wires.

        I have got into some situations and had some real head scratcher undoing and figuring out what was done and how, so one could fix the situation.

        (son had a trailer house and some one took out a kitchen fan, and proceeded to connect into a double circuit, making a direct short, on one leg, using the "red" wire, in the process it blew out a 50 amp fuse, and then (since there were not any 220 volt loads in the trailer) it was running on one fuse, and back feeding over half of the house on one 15 amp breaker. since some one had no Idea of that the double circuit was and why they tied into it when removing the fan I have not a clue, but it was done, it was fun finding the box as well where the situation took place.

        yes what your suggesting will work that is not the issue, and there is not a problem with the heaver wire, but for future use by some one unfamiliar with what was done could be a problem, and by following the code this helps eliminate some future mishaps,

        IMO
        Last edited by BHD; 08-17-2009, 08:50 PM.
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        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Old 220V Outlet repurposing...

          Originally posted by Woussko View Post
          I use 12-2 with ground Romex for lighting circuits and while a 20 Amp breaker is fine, I use a 15 Amp one because of switch ratings and to give a little extra safety.
          This makes absolutely no sense. What does the breaker rating have to do with the switch???
          How in the world is a 15A breaker ANY safer than a 20 if #12 is used?

          If the switched load is over 15A then a 20A switch is required. If the switched load is 15A or under a 15A switch is fine.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Old 220V Outlet repurposing...

            Originally posted by jbfan View Post
            I guess being a code violation is not really worth doing it the right way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
            Actually, that could be worth doing it the right way. Where's the code violation?

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Old 220V Outlet repurposing...

              Originally posted by Woussko View Post
              LMAO ... Come on and get some and get some red and white too. You should have black electrical tape around regardless. The issue I have with long bare wires is what if it touched a hot zone by error? I'm sure you try to do good work but please keep things where they should be.

              As for pulling new wire, there is nothing wrong with using #8 wire and a 20 Amp breaker as long as you do good splicing with proper wire nuts and then tape them too.

              Put simple SAFETY FIRST and code next. Some things in the code simply don't make sense in all cases and especially where safety isn't an issue. I use 12-2 with ground Romex for lighting circuits and while a 20 Amp breaker is fine, I use a 15 Amp one because of switch ratings and to give a little extra safety. Now if I had a serious lighting load, then it's 20 Amp breaker and 20 Amp spec grade switches.
              I do hope the sarcasm came through the text. Seriously, I'm taking notes.

              I agree that it makes sense to use a sheathed wire for a jog through the service panel guts. I have lots of black tape, white tape and red tape - even found some blue tape yesterday - but no green. I guess I'll just have to start acting rich and go to the store.

              By the way - confirmed 10 gauge wire.
              Last edited by jimboburnsy; 08-18-2009, 01:16 AM.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Old 220V Outlet repurposing...

                Originally posted by BHD View Post
                your having some some issues on the legality (code) of the re purposing with the ground,

                I think part of the issue is say some one sees this wire in the attic in 10 years or so, and says I need a new out let over there, so I will just use this wire and splice in a box, and splice off it it there is enough slack so lets go for it, and they get into the box and there is this red wire, (which you have converted to the ground), and they say hu, I guess we can get two circuits off of this, well just fudge on the grounds as there is not one and they tie into it and have a disaster or power up the ground side of the circuits with energized power creating a hazard, (yes it would probably be quickly found and resolved, but then it could kill some one in the process by energizing some appliance from the ground), (even tho it may be "grounded" it may not trip the breaker, depending on the other "short cuts" that may have been made over time),

                yes the likely hood of it happening is not great, but a possibility,

                If your pulling the old out one can many times just hook on to the old and pull the new in when it is coming out, and saves a lot of fishing of wires.

                I have got into some situations and had some real head scratcher undoing and figuring out what was done and how, so one could fix the situation.

                (son had a trailer house and some one took out a kitchen fan, and proceeded to connect into a double circuit, making a direct short, on one leg, using the "red" wire, in the process it blew out a 50 amp fuse, and then (since there were not any 220 volt loads in the trailer) it was running on one fuse, and back feeding over half of the house on one 15 amp breaker. since some one had no Idea of that the double circuit was and why they tied into it when removing the fan I have not a clue, but it was done, it was fun finding the box as well where the situation took place.

                yes what your suggesting will work that is not the issue, and there is not a problem with the heaver wire, but for future use by some one unfamiliar with what was done could be a problem, and by following the code this helps eliminate some future mishaps,

                IMO
                That's interesting and exactly why I posted this question here.

                Like I said, I have to REALLY, REALLY want to get into that portion of the attic.

                I do have another question about this... I believe I would be on code if I were to cap the red wire, install a GFCI outlet and mark the wallplate with the "NO EQUIPMENT GROUND" sticker. Is that correct?
                Last edited by jimboburnsy; 08-18-2009, 01:22 AM.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Old 220V Outlet repurposing...

                  I do have another question about this... I believe I would be on code if I were to cap the red wire, install a GFCI outlet and mark the wallplate with the "NO EQUIPMENT GROUND" sticker. Is that correct?

                  ummm NO YOU ARE NOT CORRECT!! a gfci receptacle requires a ground wire to operater properly. sounds like you are making a mountain out of a mole hill. with all these different posts and questions in the last week a licensed electrician would have you fixed and worry free by now. just mho.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Old 220V Outlet repurposing...

                    Originally posted by huckster4 View Post
                    I do have another question about this... I believe I would be on code if I were to cap the red wire, install a GFCI outlet and mark the wallplate with the "NO EQUIPMENT GROUND" sticker. Is that correct?

                    ummm NO YOU ARE NOT CORRECT!! a gfci receptacle requires a ground wire to operater properly.
                    YES, he IS correct!

                    IF no grounding method exists in the box you most certainly CAN replace a non-grounding receptacle with a GFI receptacle.

                    See NEC 406.3(D)(3)


                    Also, a GFI absolutely does NOT require a ground to work. I am extremely surprised to meet a real electrician who does not know this.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Old 220V Outlet repurposing...

                      petey. in indiana all electrical licenses are local. when i moved i thought that everybody had to be tested. well no. we have no county licenses. county seat has one. it's tough to get. you buy a bond to city for $75.00 bucks and $10.00 bucks to city. hey your an electrician. when i found that out, i thought $hit. well the jack legs here don't bother to license. so it works out for the licenses. some counties have no licensing what so ever. breid

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