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  • #16
    Re: panel wiring

    It is an attached garage. The bare braided wire is on the main panel ground bar. The others are on the hots of the feed breaker and hot lugs of the sub. I think they were trying to float the neutral judging by the way the hots are ran. But im not sure. No juice has been thrown to the sub. This wasnt my plan, just what came with the house. Probably a good thing it hasnt been tried.
    Last edited by bwent; 09-09-2009, 07:44 PM. Reason: forgot something

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    • #17
      Re: panel wiring

      Originally posted by Speedy Petey View Post
      Then I suggest you go back and read this section of the code. The 25 ohms is a non-issue once you sink the second rod. With two rods the 25 ohm requirement goes out the window.


      I suggest you reread the section yourself, nowhere does it state that.

      You sir are the reason I hate these DIY sites, to much bad information being given out.

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      • #18
        Re: panel wiring

        Originally posted by swoosh81 View Post
        I suggest you reread the section yourself, nowhere does it state that.

        You sir are the reason I hate these DIY sites, to much bad information being given out.
        Yeah, nice try sir. The last thing I will give out is "bad" information. Sure, I make the occasional mistake, but typically if I write it it is fact, not a guess or something someone told me.


        Here is the code section for your own reference if you are interested:


        250.56 Resistance of Rod, Pipe, and Plate Electrodes.
        A single electrode consisting of a rod, pipe, or plate that does not have a resistance to ground of 25 ohms or less shall be augmented by one additional electrode of any of the types specified by 250.52(A)(4) through (A)(8). Where multiple rod, pipe, or plate electrodes are installed to meet the requirements of this section, they shall not be less than 1.8 m (6 ft) apart.

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        • #19
          Re: panel wiring

          Originally posted by bwent View Post
          It is an attached garage. The bare braided wire is on the main panel ground bar. The others are on the hots of the feed breaker and hot lugs of the sub. I think they were trying to float the neutral judging by the way the hots are ran. Ive never heard of cad welding, or a ground ring. No juice has been thrown to the sub. This isnt my plan, just what came with the house.
          Sorry to say this but you absolutely DO have to run a 4-wire feeder to this sub-panel.
          NO, you cannot simply run an external ground. And NO, a ground rod will serve absolutely NO purpose.

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          • #20
            Re: panel wiring

            Originally posted by Speedy Petey View Post
            Yeah, nice try sir. The last thing I will give out is "bad" information. Sure, I make the occasional mistake, but typically if I write it it is fact, not a guess or something someone told me.


            Here is the code section for your own reference if you are interested:


            250.56 Resistance of Rod, Pipe, and Plate Electrodes.
            A single electrode consisting of a rod, pipe, or plate that does not have a resistance to ground of 25 ohms or less shall be augmented by one additional electrode of any of the types specified by 250.52(A)(4) through (A)(8). Where multiple rod, pipe, or plate electrodes are installed to meet the requirements of this section, they shall not be less than 1.8 m (6 ft) apart.
            You left out the best part the addendum underneath it that states if that doesn't meet the 25 ohms rule that you must use any of the means it talks about to fulfill it, including additional ground rods.

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            • #21
              Re: panel wiring

              Originally posted by swoosh81 View Post
              You left out the best part the addendum underneath it that states if that doesn't meet the 25 ohms rule that you must use any of the means it talks about to fulfill it, including additional ground rods.
              Please provide me with this text. None of my code books have it.

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              • #22
                Re: panel wiring

                Originally posted by Speedy Petey View Post
                Please provide me with this text. None of my code books have it.
                It's in the 2008 NEC - National Electrical Code Handbook (hard back) and on the 2008 NEC - National Electrical Code Handbook, CD-ROM.

                To many guys buy the loose leaf, paperback or pocket guide and believe that all the codes are in their including all addendum's. I did that once then a inspector pointed out to me the small print in the back of the book that states not all information was printed. Kinda worthless to buy them type of books if the ENTIRE code isn't even in there, could be why they are much cheaper then the hard back and thinner to.


                EDIT- message me and let me know your AIM name I'd like to discuss this with you further.
                Last edited by swoosh81; 09-09-2009, 07:57 PM.

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                • #23
                  Re: panel wiring

                  The 2008 NEC Handbook on CD is what I am using.
                  Nope, no pamphlets or pocket guides for me.

                  I have the 2005 NEC, hardcover Handbook and CD.
                  The 2008 NEC and Handbook CD.
                  The 2002 NEC, along with many previous editions.
                  You get archive copies of the NEC on the CD so I have 1996, 1999, 2002 & 2005 in .pdf, along with several Handbook versions in .pdf .

                  Sorry, I still don't see what you are saying is there.

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                  • #24
                    Re: panel wiring

                    Just for reference, here is a thread from another forum on this very subject. You are a member there so maybe you've seen it already: http://www.electriciantalk.com/f5/gr...sistance-3147/

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                    • #25
                      Re: panel wiring

                      You people have got to be kidding me. I'm about to test out in a month for my license, and we are being told the NEC book doesn't have all the codes? Just what I need to be thrown at me someday, "secret squirrel" codes to bite in the behind.

                      Wait, are you people referring to local codes? Like for example, Massachusetts has CMRs in addition to the NEC.

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                      • #26
                        Re: panel wiring

                        No, that is not the case at all. The NEC has ALL the text and codes in EVERY format it comes in. Paperback, loose leaf, hard cover, CD, whatever. They are ALL the same. NOTHING is "missing". Just different forms of book binding, that's all.


                        Study guides, "changes" books, field guides, pocket guides, etc, ARE typically abridged versions of the code, and will NOT hold up against an AHJ or inspector. Rightfully so IMO.

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                        • #27
                          Re: panel wiring

                          OP YOU CAN NOT USE THE WIRE YOU HAVE!! You have service cable there which has 2 insulated wires and a ground (bond). You need SER cable which has a insulated nuetral as well. DO NOT use the wire you have as you have no insulated nuetral. Get yourself 100Amp SER cable which has 3 insulated wires and a ground.

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                          • #28
                            Re: panel wiring

                            Yea I found out I cant use the wire. Too bad, i think i may run a new feed this winter and button it up then. Thanks for the info.

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