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  • wire. conduit, etc.

    I do not have easy access to the NEC manual so I have the following questions:

    I want to run additional power to my work shop. I think two 20 amp or one 20 amp and one 30 amp 120VAC
    circuits will cover my present and future needs.
    I plan one dedicated 120VAC outlet for a 12,000but air conditioner. It runs around 15 amps and I plan a dedicated 20 amp breaker for it.

    For the existing lighting I'll rewire everything to the existing breaker etc. which is 20 amp

    I estimate a run of about 125 feet from the workshop to the house circuit breaker panel.

    I plan two runs of #8 wire..overkill I know but I am adjusting for the voltage drop due to the length of the run.

    I will use plastic [grey] conduit buried.....
    I'm not sure how many wires I can run in the conduit.....
    If I use say a 1 1/2" conduit can I slide the 6 #8 wires in it or do I need a larger size?

    Another option......

    I am presently stealing 240VAC from the swimming pool pump to run my 240VAC air compressor.
    Can I legally split the 240 line at the pool and gain two 120VAC runs?
    If I do that I'll add another box with two 20 amp breakers....one for the air conditioner and the other for power tools.
    If this is doable then it will be a whole lot easier to do.

    I appreciate any comments from licensed electricians.

    Cactus Man

  • #2
    Re: wire. conduit, etc.

    Cactus Man, you might be over thinking this. Why not run 1 1/2 pvc from house panel to shop. Pull 4 #6 thhn wires [ 2 hots 1 neutral 1 ground]
    Install 60 amp breaker in house panel to feed the new shop panel. I say go ahead and use 1 1/2 pvc for future needs, you can always pull out those wires and go bigger if needed. Ya never know. Then run all your new circuits from new panel.

    Chances are pretty good the wires feeding your pool pump are not big enough to handle your new load and probably do not have a neutral wire.
    leave the pool equipment alone and run new feed. You will be much happier in the end.

    hope this helps , Huck

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: wire. conduit, etc.

      You CANNOT run more than one circuit (multi-wire circuit is OK) to a detached structure. So your idea is fatally flawed right from the start. You MUST run a feeder to a panel to get the circuits you require.
      You will need to run three feeder conductors and a ground. For a 50 or 60 amp feeder three #6's and a #10 ground are typical. A grounding electrode (ground rod) is also required for the structure.

      Also, I agree, leave the pool circuit alone!! As Huckster said, it is highly doubtful that a neutral was run so splitting it into two 120's is almost certainly not doable anyway.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: wire. conduit, etc.

        I used mobile home 100 amp 4 conductor aluminum to my office. When I turn everything on you can light a cigarette off the panel lugs.LOL

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: wire. conduit, etc.

          OK guys thank you very much!

          By the way I plan to upgrade the house panel from a Zinsco 1966 vintage to a 2011 square-D panel.
          Building permits and license electrician will also be utilized. To save costs I plan to help!
          I mention this as I know I can do this type of work and safely but the permit and licensed electrician
          are needed to keep the home owner's insurance happy.

          I like the idea of the 60 amp panel at the work shop as you have outlined...I think that will be the plan!

          OH, today was 108 so this project will be slated for late fall or early winter..you know one of those cold 80 degree days

          Cactus Man

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: wire. conduit, etc.

            No 220 welder ? Are You sure?
            I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: wire. conduit, etc.

              Plasma cutter and MIG welder are both 120VAC
              the only 204VAC device is the large air compressor and tank

              Cactus Man

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: wire. conduit, etc.

                Just a quick update: The Plan......

                1. I have contacted my "licensed electrician" and we discussed my
                needs and wants. We agree December or January will be an ideal time for the task.
                He will coordinate the permits and schedule the power company to come out.
                I believe he will be using a Square-D 200amp service panel with plenty of room for
                what we currently have

                2. He also suggests I run 6/3 as mentioned here earlier. thanks guys

                3. I have already secured the secondary panel ..thank you habitat for humanity resale store!
                The panel is NEW!!! and complete All I had to do was add the ground terminal strip.

                4. The panel is a GE and I already have it mounted and the individual circuits are wired properly.

                5. Tomorrow I hit Home Depot for an 8' ground rod and install it....overkill but I have a #6 green
                stranded wire from the panel ground lug to the location where the rod will go.

                6. I then will have plenty of time to run a ditch 18-20" deep about 100-125 feet to the
                house panel. I have committed to 1 1/4" conduit but plenty of room.
                I'll fish the 6/3 wires and stub it out at the house panel. When the new service is installed
                the electrician will tie it in and I'll be good to go!

                Cactus Man
                Last edited by cactusman; 08-28-2011, 01:14 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: wire. conduit, etc.

                  add a couple extra conduits for low voltage, telephone, alarm and cable. the pipe is cheap. the digging is expensive. how about a water line?

                  ditch witch with a 24'' depth is perfect.

                  rick.
                  phoebe it is

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: wire. conduit, etc.

                    Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
                    I used mobile home 100 amp 4 conductor aluminum to my office. When I turn everything on you can light a cigarette off the panel lugs.LOL
                    Then it was installed incorrectly. Aluminum wire for feeders and services is the most commonly used. It is rare to find copper in these applications. Aluminum is just fine and should perform exactly like copper. If your lugs are that hot, why have you not found out why? Heat causes fires and fires kill people.

                    Originally posted by cactusman View Post
                    Just a quick update: The Plan......

                    1. I have contacted my "licensed electrician" and we discussed my
                    needs and wants. We agree December or January will be an ideal time for the task.
                    He will coordinate the permits and schedule the power company to come out.
                    I believe he will be using a Square-D 200amp service panel with plenty of room for
                    what we currently have

                    2. He also suggests I run 6/4 as mentioned here earlier. thanks guys

                    3. I have already secured the secondary panel ..thank you habitat for humanity resale store!
                    The panel is NEW!!! and complete All I had to do was add the ground terminal strip.

                    4. The panel is a GE and I already have it mounted and the individual circuits are wired properly.

                    5. Tomorrow I hit Home Depot for an 8' ground rod and install it....overkill but I have a #6 green
                    stranded wire from the panel ground lug to the location where the rod will go.

                    6. I then will have plenty of time to run a ditch 18-20" deep about 100-125 feet to the
                    house panel. I have committed to 1 1/4" conduit but plenty of room.
                    I'll fish the 6/4 wires and stub it out at the house panel. When the new service is installed
                    the electrician will tie it in and I'll be good to go!

                    Cactus Man
                    Never try to pull a cable through conduit. When you say 6/4, you are describing a cable. Is that the plan? To pull a 6/4 cable 125 feet? If the answer is yes, you are in for a big surprise. I hope you have not purchased this cable yet. By the way. What type of cable are you using? What does it say on the jacket.
                    1-1/4" conduit is okay for individual wires, you will never get a 6/4 cable through it. I would use 1-1/2" conduit and not use cable period.

                    This panel from Habitat has a main breaker in it right? If it does not, you cannot use it. Or you will need a main breaker and "hold down kit" for it.
                    Licensed Electrician

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: wire. conduit, etc.

                      Originally posted by cactusman View Post
                      J


                      4. The panel is a GE and I already have it mounted and the individual circuits are wired properly.

                      5. Tomorrow I hit Home Depot for an 8' ground rod and install it....overkill but I have a #6 green
                      stranded wire from the panel ground lug to the location where the rod will go.
                      Item # 4. You meed a main breaker panel to provide a disconnect at the detached building. If you bought a main lug panel, it will work but you need to backfeed a breaker to act as a disconnect and add a breaker hold-down kit.

                      Item # 5 You need 2 ground rods bonded together.

                      Comment

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