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  • #16
    Re: Adding 220v circuit to garage shop

    Wow! My whole electrical career comes under scrutiny here. I must have drilled 30,000,000 holes in places that could fall down any minute!

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Adding 220v circuit to garage shop

      Originally posted by Howard Ferstler View Post
      Of course, this will weaken a 2x4 at the drill point. Do enough holes and the whole wall will be weaker. I say surface mount the wire and cover it with a narrow cover. Those should be available from several sources.

      Howard Ferstler
      Have you ever seen any building (residential or commercial) during its construction?

      LOOK MA NO HOLES!!!!

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Adding 220v circuit to garage shop

        Originally posted by JERRYMAC View Post
        i was married to a insurance claims lady for years, and this is a true statement,
        they have to pay your claims, they then have the right to collect from anybody that did illegal work and or
        cancel your policy
        Exactly, They might pay a claim at first, but essentially its renders your policy worthless when they come after you.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Adding 220v circuit to garage shop

          Originally posted by Speedy Petey View Post
          The whole wall??? Weaker? From a few 3/4" holes? Like one hole in each stud?
          I hardly think so. If that were the case then drilling would not be allowed by code.
          There are some structural no no's like drilling/notching in the middle 1/3 of a floor joist. I would not be too concerned about drilling walls unless you make swiss cheese out of them.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Adding 220v circuit to garage shop

            Originally posted by johncameron View Post
            They may not always find out about your illeagal work, but most insurance companies are just looking for a reason to deny your claim. Don't believe me, Ask any lawyer to read the fine print of your contract and see what they say.
            Over here we have similar issues with Insurance Companies unless the incident makes the news/tv/papers. Then the spineless Insurance Companies go running because they dont want to be pictured as knocking a bloke when he is down/lost everything. Mind you when we make a mistake there is no such tolerance given. Level playing field, no. Maybe I am reading iot wrong but seems you guys get away with lots of diy. We reckon Gas and Power are sacrosanct.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Adding 220v circuit to garage shop

              Originally posted by johncameron View Post
              There are some structural no no's like drilling/notching in the middle 1/3 of a floor joist. I would not be too concerned about drilling walls unless you make swiss cheese out of them.
              Are you saying that you should NOT drill in the middle third of a joist?

              That is the area that is NOT under (or minimal) tension or compression and drilling a hole would have the least affect on.
              ---------------
              Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
              ---------------
              “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
              ---------
              "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
              ---------
              sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Adding 220v circuit to garage shop

                Originally posted by Bob D. View Post
                Are you saying that you should NOT drill in the middle third of a joist?

                That is the area that is NOT under (or minimal) tension or compression and drilling a hole would have the least affect on.
                Yes, check your local building codes;

                WIRING METHODS AND MATERIALS

                (Add) 300.4.1 Drilling and notching.

                (A) Structural floor, ceiling and roof members.

                (1) Solid sawn lumber. Notches in solid lumber joists, rafters and beams shall not exceed one-
                sixth of the depth of the member, shall not be longer than one-third of the depth of the member
                and shall not be located in the middle one-third of the span. Notches at the ends of the member
                shall not exceed one-fourth the depth of the member. The tension side of members 4 inches or
                greater in nominal thickness shall not be notched except at the ends of the members. The
                diameter of holes bored or cut into members shall not exceed one-third the depth of the
                member. Holes shall not be closer than 2 inches to the top or bottom of the member, or to any
                other hole located in the member. Where the member is also notched, the hole shall not be
                closer than 2 inches to the notch.

                Exception: Notches on cantilevered portions of rafters are permitted provided the
                dimension of the remaining portion of the rafter is not less than 4-inch nominal and the
                length of the cantilever does not exceed 24 inches.

                (2) Engineered wood products. Cuts, notches and holes bored in trusses, laminated veneer
                lumber, glue-laminated members or l-joists are not permitted unless the effects of such
                penetrations are specifically considered in the design of the member and permitted by the
                manufacturer.

                (B) Studs. Any stud in an exterior wall or interior bearing partition may be cut or notched to a
                depth not exceeding 25 per cent of its width. Studs in nonbearing interior partitions may be
                notched to a depth not to exceed 40 per cent of a single stud width. Any stud may be bored or
                drilled, provided that the diameter of the resulting hole is no greater than 40 per cent of the stud

                115

                width, the edge of the hole is no closer than 5/8 inch to the edge of the stud and the hole is not
                located in the same section as a cut or notch.
                Exceptions:

                1. A stud may be bored or drilled to a diameter not exceeding 60 per cent of its width,
                provided that such studs located in exterior walls or interior bearing partitions are
                doubled and not more than two successive studs are bored.

                2. Approved stud shoes may be used when installed in accordance with the
                manufacturer's recommendations.

                (C) Top plates. When wiring or conduit is placed in or partly in an exterior wall or interior
                bearing partition necessitating cutting, drilling or notching of the top plate by more than 50 per
                cent of its width, a galvanized metal tie of not less than 0.054 inches thick (16 ga) and 1 %
                inches wide shall be fastened to each plate across and to each side of the opening with not less
                than eight 16d nails at each side or equivalent.

                Exception: When the entire side of the wall with the notch is covered by wood structural panel sheathing.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Adding 220v circuit to garage shop

                  OK, to me the "you should NOT drill in the middle third of a joist" and the "middle one-third of the span" are two different things.

                  Middle third of a joist I take to mean the depth of the joist, not the span. This is what confused me.
                  ---------------
                  Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
                  ---------------
                  “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
                  ---------
                  "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
                  ---------
                  sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Adding 220v circuit to garage shop

                    Think about it. If I laid a stick across two cinder blocks one at each end and then started stacking books one after the other on it....
                    Which would break first; A stick with a notch towards the end, or a stick with a notch in the middle?

                    Of cource the one with the notch in the middle will break first. The middle is the weakest part of a span. Drilling in the middle of a span (floor joist, rafter...) weakens the tensile strenth of the lumber.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Adding 220v circuit to garage shop

                      Originally posted by johncameron View Post
                      Think about it. If I laid a stick across two cinder blocks one at each end and then started stacking books one after the other on it....
                      Which would break first; A stick with a notch towards the end, or a stick with a notch in the middle?

                      Of cource the one with the notch in the middle will break first. The middle is the weakest part of a span. Drilling in the middle of a span (floor joist, rafter...) weakens the tensile strenth of the lumber.

                      I fully understand the middle of the span, its not what you said in the first post, that's what threw me.

                      But again, the middle of the DEPTH of the beam has no tension (bottom third) or compression (top third)
                      force acting upon it.
                      ---------------
                      Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
                      ---------------
                      “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
                      ---------
                      "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
                      ---------
                      sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Adding 220v circuit to garage shop

                        Originally posted by Bob D. View Post
                        I fully understand the middle of the span, its not what you said in the first post, that's what threw me.

                        But again, the middle of the DEPTH of the beam has no tension (bottom third) or compression (top third)
                        force acting upon it.
                        Yes, I'm with you when you say Depth. When I hear "The middle of the joist" I think of left/right not up/down. (Depth)

                        (I feel better already knowing that floor joists in your neck of the woods arent buckeling)

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Adding 220v circuit to garage shop

                          Originally posted by cormier33 View Post
                          Hey all,

                          I am going to add a 220v heater to the ceiling of my garage and will need to add a 220v circuit to my main panel (also located in the garage) to accommodate this.

                          I have basic electrical experience. I have installed new bathroom vent fans, new outlets, roughing in houses, etc. I have never installed a circuit directly into a main panel before though. I usually left that to an electrician to complete. This being said, my father has done it several times in his building career and said it is quite simple and can be safe if done properly. He advised he would walk me through the process.

                          The way I would like to install this is have a 220v outlet box mounted to the ceiling (visible), run a 220v line along the wall (directly where the ceiling/wall meet) until I get over to where the main panel is. Then I plan on running the line into the wall and into the panel. My thoughts are that this would prevent me from having to bore through the existing 2x4's and simplifying the install.

                          My questions:

                          What wire meets code to be mounted outside a wall? (I heard something about armor cable?)

                          Is there a 220v outlet box that can be mounted without having to be hidden in a wall/ceiling?

                          Should I do the entire process myself or have an electrician do the final connection after inspecting my work (which will all be visible in my noted configuration)?

                          Does anyone have anything to add?

                          Cheers,

                          Adam

                          Since the panel is in the garage, you must already have all sorts of exposed wiring and conduits going to the panel. Anything available you can piggyback on for your circuit?

                          Conduit is probably the best way, protects against damage, almost no holes to drill (why bother in a shop when there are exposed wires already?), easy to upgrade or add to in the future. How will the heater be switched on/off? Will the heater be hard-wired or plugged into an outlet? Is this a dedicated outlet? The GFCI code in the US differs on this basis, don't know code in BC.

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