Announcement

Announcement Module
Collapse

How To Post Images

Want to know the how to upload images to your posts? Image Posting Tutorial
See more
See less

Kitchen cooktop was replaced with gas. Can one side of its 220V circuit be used?

Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse
X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Kitchen cooktop was replaced with gas. Can one side of its 220V circuit be used?

    Just realized that mother has a freezer and refrigerator plugged into her garage outlets.
    15-amp outlets supplied by 14 AWG from a 15-amp circuit breaker.

    County electrical inspector says the abandoned heavy-gauge cable formerly to the electric stove top can be used for two 120-Volt circuits.
    No strands may be removed to fit the conductors into the 20-amp circuit breakers.
    Each wire has 7 copper strands. Rather than all on one side of the circuit breaker terminal screw, (there is room), is it better to divide 4 on one side and 3 on the other side?

    12 AWG will run a short distance though the garage wall to a new receptacle for the freezer and refrigerator.

    Should each be on its own 20-amp circuit?
    They operated for several years on the 15-amp circuit.

    Thank you.
    Last edited by Robert Gift; 09-24-2012, 10:19 PM.
    I'd take an educated guess - but I'm unqualified.
    It ain't just soot, it's paydirt.
    "I swear, wherever Gift goes, argument follows." -Youtube comment

  • #2
    Re: Kitchen cooktop was replaced with gas. Its 220V circuit CAN be split!

    You can always lower the circuit breaker current rating for any size wire but you can never raise it beyond it's rating (except for certain reasons not related). SO, if you have say a big #6 oven wire with a black, red, and white, you can remove the 50amp breaker that used to feed a range and substitute it for a double 20A breaker. To get the larger wire to fit a normal outlet I would wire nut a piece of #12 wire to the #6 wire to reduce it. DO this for the red, black and white wire. You will share the neutral between the 2 circuits, make sure the circuit breaker is a double that ties the 2 together.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Kitchen cooktop was replaced with gas. Its 220V circuit CAN be split!

      I created a J-box from a typical plastic receptacle box and used large wire nuts to connect two #12 cables to the stovetop cable. All are copper.
      Two separate 20-amp circuit breakers were cheaper than one double 20-amp circuit breaker. Must they be tied because they share a Neutral?
      Thank you.
      I'd take an educated guess - but I'm unqualified.
      It ain't just soot, it's paydirt.
      "I swear, wherever Gift goes, argument follows." -Youtube comment

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Kitchen cooktop was replaced with gas. Its 220V circuit CAN be split!

        For you to create a MWBC (multi wire branch circuit) from the old range cable it must have 3 insulated conductors plus a ground. A SE cable with 2 insulated conductors and a bare ground cannot be used as a MWBC.

        A MWBC must use a 2 pole breaker or have the handles connected with a handle tie.

        If you installed the J box next to the breaker panel and ran 2 #12/2 cables into the panel for your MWBC, you have a code violation. Use a single #12/3. Also be aware of box fill.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Kitchen cooktop was replaced with gas. Its 220V circuit CAN be split!

          Originally posted by rjniles View Post
          For you to create a MWBC (multi wire branch circuit) from the old range cable it must have 3 insulated conductors plus a ground. A SE cable with 2 insulated conductors and a bare ground cannot be used as a MWBC.
          A MWBC must use a 2 pole breaker or have the handles connected with a handle tie.
          If you installed the J box next to the breaker panel and ran 2 #12/2 cables into the panel for your MWBC, you have a code violation. Use a single #12/3. Also be aware of box fill.
          Thank you.

          I made use of the existing stove cable which ends in the basement. It is RED, BLACK, WHITE and bare copper ground.
          Spliced one 12-2's BLACK to the stove cable BLACK and the other 12-2's BLACK to the cable's RED.
          Both 12-2's Neutrals splice to the stove cable's WHITE Neutral and 12-2's grounds to the cable's bare copper ground.

          May I mechanically tie the two circuit breaker knobs with a screw or something, or must it be the proper pawl for the circuit breakers?

          If I can cram all into the "J-box", it that acceptable?
          Last edited by Robert Gift; 09-29-2012, 01:30 PM.
          I'd take an educated guess - but I'm unqualified.
          It ain't just soot, it's paydirt.
          "I swear, wherever Gift goes, argument follows." -Youtube comment

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Kitchen cooktop was replaced with gas. Its 220V circuit CAN be split!

            Originally posted by Robert Gift View Post
            Thank you.

            I made use of the existing stove cable which ends in the basement. It is RED, BLACK, WHITE and bare copper ground.
            Spliced one 12-2's BLACK to the stove cable BLACK and the other 12-2's BLACK to the cable's RED.
            Both 12-2's Neutrals splice to the stove cable's WHITE Neutral and 12-2's grounds to the cable's bare copper ground.

            Nope, all the conductors for a MWBC must be in the same cable sheath (or conduit). Your xx/3 with ground range cable is acceptable but you need to splice to a 12/3 to keep all the conductors in the same sheath

            May I mechanically tie the two circuit breaker knobs with a screw or something, or must it be the proper pawl for the circuit breakers?

            Nope, you must use an approved handle tie or a 2 pole breaker

            If I can cram all into the "J-box", it that acceptable?

            Nope, the J box must be large enough in cubic inches to meet the code requirement. Example: If the range cable is NM 6/3 with ground is 3 conductors plus a 12/3 is 3 conductors, all grounds count as 1 conductor. I will assume you have no internal clamps. 3 + 3 + 1 + 7 equivalent conductors. Using the largerst conductor size (#6), you need 5 cu in per conductor. 7 conductors times 5 cu in = 35 cu in is the minimum box size you need. A 4 by 4 by 2 1/2 box will do it.


            My answers are in red.
            Sorry to sound so negative but you asked
            Last edited by rjniles; 09-29-2012, 03:03 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Kitchen cooktop was replaced with gas. Its 220V circuit CAN be split!

              1. Nope, all the conductors for a MWBC must be in the same cable sheath (or conduit). Your xx/3 with ground range cable is acceptable but you need to splice to a 12/3 to keep all the conductors in the same sheath
              2. Nope, you must use an approved handle tie or a 2 pole breaker
              3. Nope, the J box must be large enough in cubic inches to meet the code requirement. Example: If the range cable is NM 6/3 with ground is 3 conductors plus a 12/3 is 3 conductors, all grounds count as 1 conductor. I will assume you have no internal clamps. 3 + 3 + 1 + 7 equivalent conductors. Using the largerst conductor size (#6), you need 5 cu in per conductor. 7 conductors times 5 cu in = 35 cu in is the minimum box size you need. A 4 by 4 by 2 1/2 box will do it.

              1. Why would stove cable, from 20-amp circuit breakers, entering the J-box and two separate 12-2 w ground out the other side be not proper?
              2. Thank you. I'll see if they have handle ties or buy a dual 20-amp tied circuit breaker.
              3. Thank you. Will buy a 4x4 x2.5 box
              I'd take an educated guess - but I'm unqualified.
              It ain't just soot, it's paydirt.
              "I swear, wherever Gift goes, argument follows." -Youtube comment

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Kitchen cooktop was replaced with gas. Can one side of its 220V circuit be used?

                Code requires all conductors of a MWBC be in the same cable sheath. Just use a 12/3 instead of 2 12/3's.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Kitchen cooktop was replaced with gas. Can one side of its 220V circuit be used?

                  Originally posted by rjniles View Post
                  Code requires all conductors of a MWBC be in the same cable sheath. Just use a 12/3 instead of 2 12/3's.
                  Thank you.
                  Then I am creating 220 Volt potential in the 120 Volt receptacle boxes.
                  One receptacle is to the west for the refrigerator and the other on the east for a freezer.
                  I'd take an educated guess - but I'm unqualified.
                  It ain't just soot, it's paydirt.
                  "I swear, wherever Gift goes, argument follows." -Youtube comment

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Kitchen cooktop was replaced with gas. Can one side of its 220V circuit be used?

                    Originally posted by Robert Gift View Post
                    Thank you.
                    Then I am creating 220 Volt potential in the 120 Volt receptacle boxes.
                    One receptacle is to the west for the refrigerator and the other on the east for a freezer.
                    You can split into 2 120 volt cicuits at the far end as you suggest. You just can't start split (with 2 cables) at tbe breaker panel and then combine into the MWBC.

                    If you had left the range cable in the breaker panel and just pig tailed the #12 in the panel, you would have made it easier.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Kitchen cooktop was replaced with gas. Can one side of its 220V circuit be used?

                      Originally posted by rjniles View Post
                      You can split into 2 120 volt cicuits at the far end as you suggest. You just can't start split (with 2 cables) at tbe breaker panel and then combine into the MWBC.
                      If you had left the range cable in the breaker panel and just pig tailed the #12 in the panel, you would have made it easier.
                      I do not understand.

                      The stove cable came from one dual 40?-amp circuit breaker.
                      I fit the RED and BLACK stranded wires into 20-amp circuit breakers (which replaced the dual-circuit breaker), [no strands removed to make them fit] and spliced the #12 at the far end (stove end) of the stove cable.

                      Since I had leftover 12-2 w ground I did not want to buy 12-3. Also, I would not want to create a longer run going west to the refrigerator outlet and from that outlet running east to the freezer.

                      I there an issue that if their common Neutral opens, 220-Volts will be going through the appliances?
                      Thank you.
                      Last edited by Robert Gift; 09-29-2012, 10:21 PM.
                      I'd take an educated guess - but I'm unqualified.
                      It ain't just soot, it's paydirt.
                      "I swear, wherever Gift goes, argument follows." -Youtube comment

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Kitchen cooktop was replaced with gas. Can one side of its 220V circuit be used?

                        Originally posted by Robert Gift View Post
                        I do not understand.


                        I fit the RED and BLACK stranded wires into 20-amp circuit breakers (which replaced the dual-circuit breaker), [no strands removed to make them fit] and spliced the #12 at the far end (stove end) of the stove cable.

                        If this ^^^^^ is what you did at the breaker panel, that you are fine. I thought you were saying you installed a J Box at the panel to connect the stove cable to the new breaker with 2 - 12/2 cables.

                        Breaking the MWBC out into 2 circuits at the far end is fine.

                        Yes there is a concern with the neutral going open and putting 240 on a connected equipment. That is why code requires the neutral be pig tailed at any receptacle boxes and not connected using the receptacle screws

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: $4.95 for three circuit breaker handle ties. A dual circuit breaker cheaper.

                          Two separate circuit breakers would allow leaving the refrigerator on while I finish installing the other branch circuit and outlet.
                          I'd take an educated guess - but I'm unqualified.
                          It ain't just soot, it's paydirt.
                          "I swear, wherever Gift goes, argument follows." -Youtube comment

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: $4.95 for three circuit breaker handle ties. A dual circuit breaker cheaper.

                            Originally posted by Robert Gift View Post
                            Two separate circuit breakers would allow leaving the refrigerator on while I finish installing the other branch circuit and outlet.
                            Yes you can but it iz a code violation if you leave it that way. And you will be working in a j box with a live circuit.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Three and four copper strands divided around the terminal screw?

                              Originally posted by rjniles View Post
                              Yes you can but it iz a code violation if you leave it that way. And you will be working in a j box with a live circuit.
                              I.nstalled a single-handle 20-amp circuit breaker.
                              Instead of having the #6 AWG wire's 7 strands fastened in one side of the terminal (beneath a metal "plate" tightened down by the terminal screw), is it acceptable to have split the 7 stands into 3 and 4 strands around the terminal screw?
                              Thank you.
                              I'd take an educated guess - but I'm unqualified.
                              It ain't just soot, it's paydirt.
                              "I swear, wherever Gift goes, argument follows." -Youtube comment

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X