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  • Hurricane sandy (rd-8000) need help!!

    Hi Guys:
    I am new here. I just joined because I need some "HELP" fast. Here in New Jersey my family and I have been without power for over a week. No heat, no sewage pump or water due to Hurricane Sandy. I just purchased a used but good RIDGID RD-8000 watt generator. I can't buy a gas can yet as there are none available but I filling from my car. Here is the problem. I am running extension cords from the 120v receptacles for the refrigerator, deep freeze and Lennox ML 195 high efficiency furnace. I jumped a short pig tail from one extension cord to the furnace circuit. It would NOT come on line and start (fancy electronic circuit board controller) giving LED warning error codes. Something to due with grounding. I finally used only a hot (black) and neutral (white) without a ground. I then connected the generator to a grounding pipe and everything seemed ok.......... Now I want to use a InterLock kit on the main service panel to allow me to safely and correctly backfeed my panel. I spent hours studying this site learning the pros and cons and gaining information. If this doesn't seem ok I will use a transfer switch but everything is sold out in this area. Late last night I read some very good intensive generator information from a poster on the Web named Warren. On his site he warned of an unsafe double ground hookup, one at the panel and one at the generator. This had something to do with a floating or bonded neutral. What does the RD-8000 have? How do I change to a floating neutral if needed? I found this info (below) here I think????.........

    "Some generators use GFCI breakers to feed the AC outlets. When connected to a panel that does not switch neutral the GFCI breaker will trip immediately. The affected generators have the neutral conductor bonded to ground to pass OSHA job requirements. Home or building electrical panels also have the neutral bonded to ground. This dual bond supplies two paths for return current to flow. The GFCI breaker will detect a difference in neutral vs line current flow and open the circuit.
    To remedy this problem, the generator must be changed to supply a floating neutral or the transfer panel rewired to switch neutral. If the generator neutral is changed, the "NEUTRAL BONDED TO FRAME" label must be replaced with a "NEUTRAL FLOATING" or "NEUTRAL NOT BONDED TO FRAME" label. The generator will no longer pass OSHA job requirements"........

    So I am asking what type of grounding does the RD-8000 have and how do I change it if needed. I did see a picture posted by your member John Deere showing the back end gen cap removed. I could see 4 wires, the black, white , red and green. Do I disconnect to green when hooking to the panel while using the Interlock kit? I need to get this hooked up soon as we do not have any sewer facilities as the 220V 1 HP grinder pump needs the main panel to function. It has been tough here after Sandy but there are worse off than I. The person (Warren) from the Web who I tracked down last night at 3:00AM returned my e-mail at 4:00AM from Halifax, Nova Scotia. he was so helpful. He does not know about the RD-8000 but his knowledge of electricity and generators is outstanding. ANY HELP YOU MAY GIVE ME--FAMILY WILL BE SO APPRECIATIVE thank you. Chriss

    Last edited by CMHorst; 11-11-2012, 01:53 AM.

  • #2
    Re: HELP! Hurricane Sandy(RD-8000) Generator

    You may or may not be interested in a Generlink, but this paper they put together may answer your question. See page 10 of 11 where it lists the RD8000 as having a floating neutral, but you should verify this in the manual for YOUR model of the RD8000 which you can download from the RIDGID website. But be sure and get the manual for YOUR generator by model AND serial number, because the manual that is on the RIDGID site now for the RD8000 says its neutral IS bonded to the frame which is the opposite of what the Generlink compatible generator list says nad it says it CAN NOT be connected to a building electrical system unless performed by a qualified electrician and per the NEC. Based on what I read in the RIDGID manual I say NO, your RD8000 IS NOT COMPATIBLE in its present configuration.

    Again, don't take my or anyone elses word for it, call RIDGID and get a copy of the manual and read it for yourself, that is the only responsible thing you can do. You NEED the manual anyway for maintenance, so get one.

    Be careful here, you can easily put utility workers at risk of injury or death and you can be held responsible in court for their death, injuries, or damage to utility or your neighbors equipment if you incorrectly backfeed your home's electrical system.

    I have a Generlink. I was the first to get one in Atlantic City Electric's service area. Took a while (months of back and forth with their engineers) but they came around.

    Now the same engineer that was evaluating the Generlink for my house has one, and many of my friends have bought them too.

    They will probably be near impossible to get now after the storm. When I got mine a year ago I had to wait because they were sending them all to people who needed them from Irene. Anyway its very easy and safe and its semi-portable. You can take it with you when you move, its plug-n-play, not hard-wired to your home like a transfer switch.

    GenerLink.com - About Generators

    I don't get anything or have any connection with Generlink, just a happy customer.

    I have emailed Generlink and asked them to verify the information in their generator compatibility list.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Bob D.; 11-11-2012, 09:40 AM.
    ---------------
    Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
    ---------------
    “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
    ---------
    "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
    ---------
    sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: HELP! Hurricane Sandy(RD-8000) Generator

      Originally posted by CMHorst View Post
      [FONT=Arial] This had something to do with a floating or bonded neutral. What does the RD-8000 have? How do I change to a floating neutral if needed?
      The RD8000 is a bonded neutral unit. Although I DO NOT SUGGEST OR CONDONE UNAUTHORIZED MODIFICATIONS, if you remove the end cap from the gen head, you'll find an approx. 2.5" white jumper wire connected between the main terminal block and the metal frame of the gen head. Removing that jumper modifies the generator to a floating neutral unit. Since I have absolutely no clue your level of competence, DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK, DO NOT QUOTE ME ON IT, AND DO NOT EVEN ATTEMPT TO PASS ANY BLAME WHATSOEVER MY WAY IF YOU FRY YOURSELF, SOMEONE ELSE, OR ANY EQUIPMENT PLUGGED INTO THE GENERATOR.
      "HONK if you've never seen a gun fired from a moving Harley"

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: HELP! Hurricane Sandy(RD-8000) Generator

        As for your furnace...by hooking a generator to it the way you did violates the warranty of it. The furnace requires a stable, clean power source with dedicated neutral, power, and mechanical ground. All are needed for proper flame rectification proving.

        From the way you stated pigtail here pigtail there it sounds to me like there's a likely possibility you are back feeding the electrical utility. You are in a precarious position...with a possibility of killing someone or yourself.

        Modifying an appliance to run your way is not only improper but unsafe, and will violate many codes as well as the UL listing. Being unprepared for an emergency situation is no excuse for putting others in harm's way.
        Last edited by Plumber Punky; 11-11-2012, 10:42 AM. Reason: stuff
        ~~

        ... it was plumbed by Ray Charles and his helper Stevie Wonder

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: HELP! Hurricane Sandy(RD-8000) Generator

          Guys:
          Thank you all for the quick help. I'm not out of the woods yet but I least I am learning what NOT to do. The electricians in this area are not answering their phones, all are out on the job overworked. Your help to me has been very valuable. Home Depot is out of plugs, extension cords , batteries and gas cans. I am sure we all will have our power back soon. At least I found a Interlock Kit to install but first I am waiting to hear back from Generlink and you guys. ALL ADVICE TAKEN AS "OPINIONS" not to hold any one responsible .

          @ Bob D:
          Good advice for sure. " See page 10 of 11 where it lists the RD8000 as having a floating neutral, but you should verify this in the manual for YOUR model of the RD8000 which you can download from the RIDGID website. But be sure and get the manual for YOUR generator by model AND serial number, because the manual that is on the RIDGID site now for the RD8000 says its neutral IS bonded to the frame which is the opposite of what the Generlink compatible generator list says nad it says it CAN NOT be connected to a building electrical system unless performed by a qualified electrician and per the NEC. "................. I have spent many hours on the internet only to come to the same conclusion. I have a call in to GererLink and RIDGID far no return call. I hope to know more Monday. Bob, the manual I downloaded didn't have the page your thumbnail provided. Thank you. I also i bevieve I have a bonded neutral, just don't know what to do regarding it.

          @ Mr. Doctordeere: I am sorry I mistakenly refereed to you as John Deere :-) I believe it was a picture of yours showing the end cap removed and wires exposed. I really would appreciate you posting it again. I think I remember seeing a short white jumper from the white neutral over to the green ground post. Would this be the wire to remove when using the generator while requiring it to have a "floating neutral" ???? I would for sure reinstall it when using the generator as a stand alone unit.

          @ Plumber Punky: Yes the new furnace and its warranty. I agree, but when the snow hit us I no longer could keep the family warm. The city came thru with warming centers but we didn't have gasoline to drive there. The furnace knew what it wanted for dinner and would not accept my initial hookup with (bare ground service panel wire included). I used a short extension cord pig tail with no female end. I directly wired it to the furnace and installed a ground stake for the generator. I would run the furnace for short times and then unplug it. The furnace was operating directly from the generators hot, neutral and ground. It seem to like this setup. Because I still don't have power and am using this method and you think it NOT OK to do so temporarily, PLEASE let me know.

          I have screwed a temporary metal strap across my main breakers to stay isolated even though I am NOT hooked directly into any house wiring. I am waiting a call back from GenerLink before installing a Interlock Kit. I like the idea of the GenerLink, I hope it is available for my area. I am trying to stay safe while protecting the power linemen. They have done their very best. I stopped to talk with some and offered hot coffee that I got 10 miles away. They said thank you and was soon back up the pole in the snow storm all dressed in rubber.

          Once again, thanks to you guys for helping. If I can find out for sure regarding the bonded vs floating neutral on the RD-8000 and how to change to a floating neutral if necessary it would really help me. As now I cant go any further until I know. Also, if converting to a floating neutral do I still ground the RD-8000 to a driven ground pole????
          Thanks Again...... still need help. Chriss

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: HELP! Hurricane Sandy(RD-8000) Generator

            OP couldnt repost for some reason. His email to 'us', personal information deleted:

            Re; Hurricane Sandy RD-8000 Help!!!! I tried to post a reply but the RIDGID site wouldn't accept???? So here is my intended reply post. Thank you
            ++++++++++++++++++++++
            Guys:
            Thank you all for the quick help. I'm not out of the woods yet but I least I am learning what NOT to do. The electricians in this area are not answering their phones, all are out on the job overworked. Your help to me has been very valuable. Home Depot is out of plugs, extension cords , batteries and gas cans. I am sure we all will have our power back soon. At least I found a Interlock Kit to install but first I am waiting to hear back from Generlink and you guys. ALL ADVICE TAKEN AS "OPINIONS" not to hold any one responsible .

            @ Bob D:
            Good advice for sure. " See page 10 of 11 where it lists the RD8000 as having a floating neutral, but you should verify this in the manual for YOUR model of the RD8000 which you can download from the RIDGID website. But be sure and get the manual for YOUR generator by model AND serial number, because the manual that is on the RIDGID site now for the RD8000 says its neutral IS bonded to the frame which is the opposite of what the Generlink compatible generator list says nad it says it CAN NOT be connected to a building electrical system unless performed by a qualified electrician and per the NEC. "................. I have spent many hours on the internet only to come to the same conclusion. I have a call in to GererLink and RIDGID far no return call. I hope to know more Monday. Bob, the manual I downloaded didn't have the page your thumbnail provided. Thank you. I also i bevieve I have a bonded neutral, just don't know what to do regarding it.

            @ Mr. Doctordeere: I am sorry I mistakenly refereed to you as John Deere :-) I believe it was a picture of yours showing the end cap removed and wires exposed. I really would appreciate you posting it again. I think I remember seeing a short white jumper from the white neutral over to the green ground post. Would this be the wire to remove when using the generator while requiring it to have a "floating neutral" ???? I would for sure reinstall it when using the generator as a stand alone unit.

            @ Plumber Punky: Yes the new furnace and its warranty. I agree, but when the snow hit us I no longer could keep the family warm. The city came thru with warming centers but we didn't have gasoline to drive there. The furnace knew what it wanted for dinner and would not accept my initial hookup with (bare ground service panel wire included). I used a short extension cord pig tail with no female end. I directly wired it to the furnace and installed a ground stake for the generator. I would run the furnace for short times and then unplug it. The furnace was operating directly from the generators hot, neutral and ground. It seem to like this setup. Because I still don't have power and am using this method and you think it NOT OK to do so temporarily, PLEASE let me know.

            I have screwed a temporary metal strap across my main breakers to stay isolated even though I am NOT hooked directly into any house wiring. I am waiting a call back from GenerLink before installing a Interlock Kit. I like the idea of the GenerLink, I hope it is available for my area. I am trying to stay safe while protecting the power linemen. They have done their very best. I stopped to talk with some and offered hot coffee that I got 10 miles away. They said thank you and was soon back up the pole in the snow storm all dressed in rubber.

            Once again, thanks to you guys for helping. If I can find out for sure regarding the bonded vs floating neutral on the RD-8000 and how to change to a floating neutral if necessary it would really help me. As now I cant go any further until I know. Also, if converting to a floating neutral do I still ground the RD-8000 to a driven ground pole????
            Thanks Again...... still need help. Chriss
            ~~

            ... it was plumbed by Ray Charles and his helper Stevie Wonder

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: HELP! Hurricane Sandy(RD-8000) Generator

              Originally posted by CMHorst View Post

              @ Plumber Punky: Yes the new furnace and its warranty. I agree, but when the snow hit us I no longer could keep the family warm. The city came thru with warming centers but we didn't have gasoline to drive there. The furnace knew what it wanted for dinner and would not accept my initial hookup with (bare ground service panel wire included). I used a short extension cord pig tail with no female end. I directly wired it to the furnace and installed a ground stake for the generator. I would run the furnace for short times and then unplug it. The furnace was operating directly from the generators hot, neutral and ground. It seem to like this setup. Because I still don't have power and am using this method and you think it NOT OK to do so temporarily, PLEASE let me know.
              In an all-fired emergency one has to not freeze, I suppose, and one does what he has to do. I dont like the idea of running the furnace on what is considered a temporary utility supply. All it takes is one slip of the ground, one slip of the hot wire, one 'oops' and every part of the furnace and ducts are hot. Everything they touch are also hot - pipes, wires, etc. This is a very likely possibility, especially in light of the modifications you want to make.

              Most generators dont provide clean power. An oscilloscope will show you the little squiggles and burps. I have a Velleman (sp?) portable that shows it great. Without clean power best case is it runs ok, worst case is total board failure complete with sparking and smoke. Most times people get nuisance lockouts with errors not listed in the user's guide. Any reputable manufacturer that I have ever dealt with says that supplying faulty power to a unit will cause problems not covered by warranty.

              P.S., generators are not the only cause of dirty power. other causes include lightning strikes, bad pole transformers, local EM interference, and neighbors with faulty electronic equipment
              ~~

              ... it was plumbed by Ray Charles and his helper Stevie Wonder

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: HELP! Hurricane Sandy(RD-8000) Generator

                Hope this posts.....
                Today on FOX NEWS Dr. Manny Alvarez interviews Hurricane Sandy victims and Red Cross at a school near me, Hopatcong High School. We still have many in our area without power or facilities. Getting cold again. I can step out on my deck and look over at that area. I can hear generators running. Thank God we are OK over here. I think I will drive over to see if I can offer a little help.

                Soon I will reply with my solution using the RD-8000 generator. I am sure the tradesmen will be pleased and info may help someone searching the Net like I did during the next power out crisis.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: HELP! Hurricane Sandy(RD-8000) Generator

                  It's truly unbelievable how many poles and how much wire the utilities have replaced that was damaged by the storm.
                  PSE&G alone has replaced about 25,000 poles. No, that's not a typo, 25 Thousand poles plus about 1000 transformers,
                  and cut down over 40,000 trees. That's just in PSEG service area. Add on top of that all that JCP&L and ACE have done
                  and the numbers are staggering, and that is just for New Jersey.

                  As of this evening (11/13/2012) JCP&L reports about 800 w/o power, ACE reports 76 customers w/o power, and PSE&G has about 10,000 still w/o power.
                  Last edited by Bob D.; 11-13-2012, 06:38 PM.
                  ---------------
                  Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
                  ---------------
                  “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
                  ---------
                  "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
                  ---------
                  sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: HELP! Hurricane Sandy(RD-8000) Generator

                    Bob:
                    Just spent 1 hour on the phone with JCP&L. I can't seem to get a straight answer regarding the installation of the GenerLink transfer switch. I know they are busy but clearly could say yes or no if it is allowed. As of now, they say both????? I guess it depends on who you talk too. What did you go through (paper work) with your GenerLink installation ? You said you were the first in your area, right?
                    Last edited by CMHorst; 11-13-2012, 08:22 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: HELP! Hurricane Sandy(RD-8000) Generator



                      instantiation [ɪnˌstænʃɪˈeɪʃən]n1. (Philosophy / Logic) the act or an instance of instantiating
                      2. (Philosophy / Logic) the representation of (an abstraction) by a concrete example
                      3. (Philosophy / Logic) Logica. the process of deriving an individual statement from a general one by replacing the variable with a name or other referring expression
                      b. the valid inference of an instance from a universally quantified statement, as David is rational from all men are rational
                      c. a statement so derived

                      think you may mean 'installation' ?
                      ~~

                      ... it was plumbed by Ray Charles and his helper Stevie Wonder

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: HELP! Hurricane Sandy(RD-8000) Generator

                        Bob D:
                        I think we agree the RD-8000 has a bonded neutral. Here is a copy of my e-mail to GenerLink and their quick reply along with a prompt return phone call.

                        My e-mail to GererLink.........
                        I have a Rigid RD 8000 watt generator. I would like to know if it is your GenerLink compatible with my Rigid generator. I am not sure what kind of ground I have (bonded or floating), do you know??? I see the my 120v receptacles are GFCI protected but it appears the 220V is not protected and is a 4 prong 30A receptacle. I am in the tail end of storm Sandy here in New Jersey and still without power. I really would appreciate an answer ASAP. Thank you.

                        GenerLinks Reply...............
                        Thank you for your interest in the GenerLink transfer switch. We have researched the Ridgid RD8000 and it is compatible with the 30amp GenerLink and will require the L14-30 connection cable and has a floating neutral. Thanks,
                        Rachel Watkins
                        Global Power Products, Inc.
                        225 Arnold Road │Lawrenceville, GA 30044
                        Office: 1-800-886-3837 │Fax: 770-736-8231
                        .:Global Power Products:.www.generlink.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Hurricane sandy (rd-8000) need help!!

                          Hi I was just wondering if you ever found a solution to the boneed ground. Did it have to be removed? I to want to have an interlock switch installed and want to make sure it is done safely.

                          Thamks,
                          Bob M.

                          Comment

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