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  • Rewiring R4512 TS for a 220v line

    I recently purchased the R4512 table saw and want to rewire it for the 220v line I have in my garage. The manual has instruction for rewiring it using the existing cord, but I want to completely replace the cord with a 220v cord, rather than just the plug (that way I can easily convert back over to a 110v if necessary). My 220 is a 3 prong range outlet (as shown here Whirlpool 8171385RC 4-Foot 40 Amp 3 Wire Range Power Cord - Amazon.com).

    1. Can I even rewire the TS using this type of connection?
    2. How do I replace the entire factory cord with a 220? Do I need to replace the cord between the saw and switch AND between the switch and the outlet?

  • #2
    Re: Rewiring R4512 TS for a 220v line

    Why do you want to convert to 220? Yes you could change it to use the dryer cord but does not make a lot of sense and is impracrical. You will probably have to modify the switch to accept the larger cord and this negates the ul listing. You dont have to change the wiring from the switch back to the motor. If this was something you were hellbent on doing I would just change the cord cap to one of these 220 plugs;


    And then have a receptacle that matches installed.
    Last edited by johncameron; 02-15-2013, 03:00 PM. Reason: cant get the damn picture to paste

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    • #3
      Re: Rewiring R4512 TS for a 220v line

      Originally posted by johncameron View Post
      Why do you want to convert to 220? Yes you could change it to use the dryer cord but does not make a lot of sense and is impracrical. You will probably have to modify the switch to accept the larger cord and this negates the ul listing. You dont have to change the wiring from the switch back to the motor. If this was something you were hellbent on doing I would just change the cord cap to one of these 220 plugs;


      And then have a receptacle that matches installed.
      +1 Why make it more difficult than it has to be?
      Teach your kids about taxes..........eat 30 percent of their ice cream.

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      • #4
        Re: Rewiring R4512 TS for a 220v line

        According to the specs this saw is only 13 amps at 110 volts. If you use it at 220 volts, then each pole should carry approx 6.5 amps. The 40 amp cord is WAY overkill.
        ~~

        ... it was plumbed by Ray Charles and his helper Stevie Wonder

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        • #5
          Re: Rewiring R4512 TS for a 220v line

          Originally posted by ESJ7 View Post
          The manual has instruction for rewiring it using the existing cord, but I want to completely replace the cord with a 220v cord, rather than just the plug (that way I can easily convert back over to a 110v if necessary).
          There is no such thing as a "220 cord".
          In your case the cord on it now can be used for 12-V or 240V. The cord is the same.



          Originally posted by ESJ7 View Post
          My 220 is a 3 prong range outlet (as shown here Whirlpool 8171385RC 4-Foot 40 Amp 3 Wire Range Power Cord - Amazon.com).
          This is a 40 or 50 amp 120/240V 3-wire range circuit. You can technically do this, but that cord will be a ***** to terminate.
          They censored "*****"? I wonder if dog forums also censor this word.



          Originally posted by ESJ7 View Post
          1. Can I even rewire the TS using this type of connection?
          Probably



          Originally posted by ESJ7 View Post
          2. How do I replace the entire factory cord with a 220? Do I need to replace the cord between the saw and switch AND between the switch and the outlet?
          Yes, you need to re-wire everything to work with the 240V circuit.

          If you want an honest opinion, you are in way over your head and should just leave it alone. You will see absolutely NO benefit by going to 240V. NONE.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Rewiring R4512 TS for a 220v line

            A common myth is that at at 240v it will draw half the power.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Rewiring R4512 TS for a 220v line

              Originally posted by johncameron View Post
              A common myth is that at at 240v it will draw half the power.
              It does, but one forgets to multiply by 2 legs of power...
              ~~

              ... it was plumbed by Ray Charles and his helper Stevie Wonder

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Rewiring R4512 TS for a 220v line

                About the only reason to swap the unit over to 240V is if you have extremely poor wiring in the shop and you have extreme voltage drop, when starting the units, (at one time my shop was that way (wired before the power company came, and was a supply for a small surplus generator after ww2 for the house), and I did convert most of my tools to 240 volt as things did not brown down as bad, (I have since upgraded the wiring to that shop),

                and reason two is so the neighbor does not borrow it,

                now if it was higher horse power that would be a different story,

                I think my saw was wried in on 220/240 when I got it, even tho it is only a 1.5 motor as well, I had bought it from a school, some day I would like to have another saw, but my old Walker Turner is a excellent saw,
                Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
                attributed to Samuel Johnson
                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

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                • #9
                  Re: Rewiring R4512 TS for a 220v line

                  Originally posted by Plumber Punky View Post
                  It does, but one forgets to multiply by 2 legs of power...
                  Um, wrong on both statements.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Rewiring R4512 TS for a 220v line

                    Originally posted by BHD View Post
                    About the only reason to swap the unit over to 240V is if you have extremely poor wiring in the shop and you have extreme voltage drop, when starting the units, (at one time my shop was that way (wired before the power company came, and was a supply for a small surplus generator after ww2 for the house), and I did convert most of my tools to 240 volt as things did not brown down as bad, (I have since upgraded the wiring to that shop),

                    and reason two is so the neighbor does not borrow it,

                    now if it was higher horse power that would be a different story,

                    I think my saw was wried in on 220/240 when I got it, even tho it is only a 1.5 motor as well, I had bought it from a school, some day I would like to have another saw, but my old Walker Turner is a excellent saw,
                    A major reason to use a higher voltage is to save on the cost of wiring (smaller wire )

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Rewiring R4512 TS for a 220v line

                      Originally posted by johncameron View Post
                      Um, wrong on both statements.
                      if you have a 110 volt, 15 amp circuit that means it's a 15 amp single pole circuit, right?

                      if you convert to 220 volts it halves the amps, to 7.5 amps on 2 poles, right?

                      is this where we get into power factors and apparent power and what the elec co is going to charge?
                      ~~

                      ... it was plumbed by Ray Charles and his helper Stevie Wonder

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Rewiring R4512 TS for a 220v line

                        Another reason to use 230 volt would be load balancing. If you run a large amp draw motor off L1 only you will have a momentary voltage drop on motor startup and there might also be a reduction in voltage relative to L2 with the motor running. If these large loads are not balanced between the two buses in the panel you could have a greater number of them on L1 say and with enough of them running at the same time could see a voltage drop on the one side. For equipment that runs on 230 volts, how will they react to an imbalance between L1 and L2 of say 15 volts or more? What is the accepted delta between them for most equipment which in most cases for residential I would think would be a well pump or HVAC motor; or a resistive load like heating coils in dryers, ovens, cooktops, or electric heat. I don't see those resistive loads as being too particular about a ~5% difference but what about those motors like well pumps or HVAC equipment. Long term what damage if any will be done. Will some windings in the motor run hotter because they are drawing more current to make up for the reduced voltage? Won't this lead to early failure of motor or a reduction in motor efficiency? IIRC there is a table in the NEMA standard on Motors that gives the derating factor for motors operating with voltage deltas of up to 5%, at which point motor efficiency is 75%. A voltage unbalance of 1% or more requires the motor to be derated (by the NEMA standard) I believe.

                        There is no savings in energy consumed, can't change Ohms law. But my opinion is the motor will spin up faster and be less likely to bog down in the middle of a cut when running off 230.
                        ---------------
                        Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
                        ---------------
                        “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
                        ---------
                        "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
                        ---------
                        sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Rewiring R4512 TS for a 220v line

                          I think in the majority of situations with modern wiring and 100 and 200 and higher yet mains, the need for that fine tuned load balancing is not necessary,

                          back when some houses only had a 30 amp or a 70 amps on the meter and the rest of the place was wired accordingly balancing the load to help on voltage drop was a major consideration, but if your getting major voltage drop on a modern system from a 13 amp load, then one has some other problem, when I was young I wiring up a shop I was using and had this massive breaker box and running individual circuits ever where, (no that is not bad) but a old gentleman electrician said to me, "son you can not pull that many triggers at once,"
                          and he made perfect sense, a small home shop your not going to have three table saws going and the planer and a dozen other tools going at once, so yes load balancing is important but my guess is only one tool (besides possible an air compressor) will be running at one time, in 98% of the home shops, and if using a dust collector, one can do a balancing by putting it on a circuit the other side of the breaker box, (most home dust collectors will be about the same power as the saw)
                          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                          John and for the saw that only has 13 amps,@ 120volts, how much smaller wire would one want to use?
                          Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
                          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                          "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
                          attributed to Samuel Johnson
                          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                          PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Rewiring R4512 TS for a 220v line

                            Originally posted by Plumber Punky View Post
                            if you have a 110 volt, 15 amp circuit that means it's a 15 amp single pole circuit, right?

                            if you convert to 220 volts it halves the amps, to 7.5 amps on 2 poles, right?

                            is this where we get into power factors and apparent power and what the elec co is going to charge?
                            Power is calculated by multiplying the voltage times the current. When you switch from a 120 to a 240v circuit you double the voltage and half the current. But the power consumption is the same. 120v X 10A= 1200watts change to 240v and you have 240v X 5A=1200watts....Same thing. The benefit is you can use smaller wire with a 240v circuit. Smaller wire is cheaper. But NO this has nothing to do with power factor or apparent power. Power factor and apparent power has to do with highly inductive loads drawing loads of current. It is AC theroy and does not conform to DC theroy. Big factories that have high current draw using motors etc need to have a "power correction" circuit. The power company usually does this by using capacitors to cancel the inductive reactance. AC also conforms to ohms law to an extent but the term for resistance in AC theroy is impedance. If you look at the formulas when a frequency of an AC voltage is applied you can see where the power factor comes in. DC follows a straight line and in AC you have vectors involved. So at some point in AC the straight line lifts about the axis and follows the hypotenuse of a triangle which is usually a higher value than along a straight line.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Rewiring R4512 TS for a 220v line

                              in a one man shop you are most likely rinning only one or two tools at any given time. i say two because you could be using a TS or BS or planer and running a dust collector.

                              But what about al lthose other loads in a home? You're out in the shop and have no idea when the wife will start the dryer or the oven or when the well pump will cycle on or off. what about the freezer or the AC or heat pump? there are many loads that could come on at the same or nearly the same time in a home. Voltage sags can be caused by any of these loads on startup either individually or on simultaneous starts. Also, my concern was about other equipment in the home that runs on 220v and is now potentially seeing a difference of 5 votls between phases. That 220v motor in your AC unit, your well pump, and other such loads, not the TS running on 120v in the shop.

                              I have watched the display on the UPS for my computer which can show the input line voltage. This UPS also does power conditioning so it provides boost during sags and restricts voltage surges maintaining the output voltage within 1%. So I can see when the wife starts the dryer or the well pump comes on and see the input voltage drop to 117 from 123 (which is my norm) for a couple seconds. All these divices are located within 50 feet (wire run) of the breaker panel so there are no long runs. Voltage measures the same at each location with my DVM. With my old TS (TS-3650 wored for 120v) I would see the shop lights dim a bit on startup. Now, since I sold the TS-3650 and bought the Unisaw (3hp 220v) I don't see the lights dim more. The shop sub panel is less than 20 feet from the main panel as the wire runs, and the TS is less than 35 feet from the subpanel.

                              At any rate we are getting way of topic.
                              Last edited by Bob D.; 02-17-2013, 08:03 PM.
                              ---------------
                              Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
                              ---------------
                              “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
                              ---------
                              "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
                              ---------
                              sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

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