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  • Outdoor fan, switch and receptacles for under patio roof

    Power from the panel will go first into a GFI outlet. Then I want to add another outlet that will be powered from the LOAD side of the GFI. I am a little confused on how to take power to the switch.

    In the diagrams below is one way more preferred over the other as far as the load side of the GFI giving power to the other receptacle and switch(1) or should the power for the switch be grabbed with the line side of the GFI(2)?

    Attached Files
    Last edited by rosem637; 09-26-2013, 12:25 PM.

  • #2
    Re: Outdoor fan, switch and receptacles for under patio roof

    There will be two unused terminals on the non-GFCI (but still protected) second receptacle. Use those instead of pigtailing your wires to feed the switch/fan. Don't forget your ground wires. I assume you left them out of your drawing for clarity.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Outdoor fan, switch and receptacles for under patio roof

      Originally posted by killavolt View Post
      There will be two unused terminals on the non-GFCI (but still protected) second receptacle. Use those instead of pigtailing your wires to feed the switch/fan. Don't forget your ground wires. I assume you left them out of your drawing for clarity.
      Electrically speaking, is This way(#3) really any different than diagram #1. And yes I left the grounds out to not clutter diagram.
      Attached Files
      Last edited by rosem637; 06-07-2013, 09:31 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Outdoor fan, switch and receptacles for under patio roof

        Apparently you did not like the answers you got over at DIYChatroom. As you were told there, schematic 2 will not work as you are using the GFCI neutral with the line side hot. This will cause an unbalance and trip the GFCI.

        Outdoor Fan, Switch And Receptacles - Electrical - DIY Chatroom - DIY Home Improvement Forum

        If you want that configuration, run 2 separate neutrals and 2 separate hots. Run the load side of the GFCI to the second receptacle and use the other neutral and hot from the GFCI line side to power the switch and light and/or fan.
        Last edited by rjniles; 06-07-2013, 10:46 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Outdoor fan, switch and receptacles for under patio roof

          Originally posted by rjniles View Post
          Apparently you did not like the answers you got over at DIYChatroom.
          Has nothing to do with liking an answer. I dont see an issue with having other opinions seeing as if the post on DIY appeared over.

          Thanks for suggesting.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Outdoor fan, switch and receptacles for under patio roof

            Putting the fan on the un-used terminals of the 2nd receptacle may be allowed but then the load of the fan
            and its light fixture, however slight, is added to whatever load is plugged into the duplex receptacle, and
            this is all in turn running through the GFCI receptacle with its own load.

            Now the GFI is not looking for a circuit overload I know, it watches for an imbalance in the circuit
            of ~5mA or more at which point it trips. It serves a different purpose than a circuit breaker.

            But I am not an electrician so put no faith in what I am saying, you are better off going with what Killavolt says.

            Killavolt, is it common to mix ceiling lights and/or fans with receptacles on the same circuit in a room, or
            would you consider this a special case. Does the fan need to be on a GFI circuit because it is outside on
            a covered porch. Why not put a GFI breaker in and be done with it. If the GFI receptacle has not been bought yet
            there is not much difference in the price is there, a few dollars maybe but would seem to be a better setup.
            ---------------
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            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Outdoor fan, switch and receptacles for under patio roof

              You can look for all the opinions you want, schematic 2 will not work as it will trip the GFCI

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Outdoor fan, switch and receptacles for under patio roof

                On the DIY site you said:

                Originally posted by rjniles
                Either diagram is fine.
                On another site someone said:
                Originally posted by hj View Post
                I, personally, do not like to see stationary motors wired through a GFCI because of false tripping, so I would use the second one.
                So how is one to know who to believe seeing as though I have no way of knowing anyone's credentials.
                Last edited by rosem637; 06-07-2013, 08:31 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Outdoor fan, switch and receptacles for under patio roof

                  Originally posted by rosem637 View Post
                  On the DIY site you said:

                  Either diagram is fine.

                  On another site someone said:

                  I, personally, do not like to see stationary motors wired through a GFCI because of false tripping, so I would use the second one.

                  So how is one to know who to believe seeing as though I have no way of knowing anyone's credentials.

                  Look at the 'occupation' in the upper right corner of the poster's message. 'Electrician' is a good one to look for.
                  Last edited by Plumber Punky; 06-07-2013, 10:02 PM.
                  ~~

                  ... it was plumbed by Ray Charles and his helper Stevie Wonder

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Outdoor fan, switch and receptacles for under patio roof

                    Originally posted by Plumber Punky View Post
                    Look at the 'occupation' in the upper right corner of the poster's message. 'Electrician' is a good one to look for.
                    And because someone types the letters that spell electrician in the occupation field, that absolutely 100% means the person is an electrician? Do the moderators at this site ask for state licenses when a person puts a professional trade as an occupation and verify said license? I dont buy it.

                    I appreciate the comments on all forums but an just trying to gain confirmation. No harm no foul.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Outdoor fan, switch and receptacles for under patio roof

                      Originally posted by Bob D. View Post
                      Putting the fan on the un-used terminals of the 2nd receptacle may be allowed but then the load of the fan
                      and its light fixture, however slight, is added to whatever load is plugged into the duplex receptacle, and
                      this is all in turn running through the GFCI receptacle with its own load.

                      Now the GFI is not looking for a circuit overload I know, it watches for an imbalance in the circuit
                      of ~5mA or more at which point it trips. It serves a different purpose than a circuit breaker.

                      But I am not an electrician so put no faith in what I am saying, you are better off going with what Killavolt says.

                      Killavolt, is it common to mix ceiling lights and/or fans with receptacles on the same circuit in a room, or
                      would you consider this a special case. Does the fan need to be on a GFI circuit because it is outside on
                      a covered porch. Why not put a GFI breaker in and be done with it. If the GFI receptacle has not been bought yet
                      there is not much difference in the price is there, a few dollars maybe but would seem to be a better setup.
                      The problem with a a GFCI breaker is if it trips you have to go all the way back to the panel to reset it. Either will work but the GFCI receptacle is more convenient. What she really should do is pigtail the feed coming in from the panel with two wires, one to feed the fan/light and one to feed the GFCI and the other receptacle downstream. That will take care of any imbalance issues as you were correct in pointing out.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Outdoor fan, switch and receptacles for under patio roof

                        Originally posted by killavolt View Post
                        What she really should do is pigtail the feed coming in from the panel with two wires, one to feed the fan/light and one to feed the GFCI and the other receptacle downstream. That will take care of any imbalance issues as you were correct in pointing out.
                        Isnt this exactly what diagram 2 shows? The feed is pigtailed with 2 wires, one is feeding the switch and the other is feeding the GFI.
                        Attached Files

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Outdoor fan, switch and receptacles for under patio roof

                          Killavolt.

                          The problem with schematic 2 is that it uses a non GFC hot, with a neutral off the load side of the GFCI. This will trip the GFCI.

                          BTW, I lived in Southington off Jude Lane from 1967 to 1998 (originally from Berlin). Have lived in South Carolina for the last 15.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Outdoor fan, switch and receptacles for under patio roof

                            Originally posted by rosem637 View Post
                            And because someone types the letters that spell electrician in the occupation field, that absolutely 100% means the person is an electrician? Do the moderators at this site ask for state licenses when a person puts a professional trade as an occupation and verify said license? I dont buy it.

                            I appreciate the comments on all forums but an just trying to gain confirmation. No harm no foul.

                            Based on those comments you can't get a confirmation here. If you have issues believing what is written by an 'electrician' on a DIY forum you have no business asking for help on said forum. You REALLY need to go to your local union electricians or hire an advertised, licensed electrician to help you.
                            ~~

                            ... it was plumbed by Ray Charles and his helper Stevie Wonder

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Outdoor fan, switch and receptacles for under patio roof

                              ANy thoughts on if this arrangement would function or would it cause the GFI to trip? The duplex, which is shown at ceiling level, will have both halves switch controlled.


                              Thanks

                              This is also posted on several other forums in case that is an issue for some. Dont know why it would be but putting it out there.
                              Attached Files
                              Last edited by rosem637; 06-09-2013, 08:14 AM.

                              Comment

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