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working with DIY. properly!!

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  • #16
    Re: working with DIY. properly!!

    Originally posted by MR.FUDD View Post
    Blue you are reading too much into this, but if you insist I will explain.


    I'm saying most tile guys don't have same level of professionalism of like a master plumber who has taken many years of training & education to master their craft & continue with their education.


    How did I come to that conclusion. 37 years of construction experience, watching guys with only a grinder & a trowel who think they know how to set tile properly, & ripping out the mess they installed.
    A poor tile job is easy to rip out, but a good tile job takes some work.




    A hack is someone who constructs something in a grossly improper way & it prematurely fails due to their workmanship.


    What's my source Wikipedia


    Just because it looks good does not mean it was constructed properly.
    Most tile guys don't know what size notch trowel to use with the size of tile they are setting, what adhesive to use & how to use the adhesive & ESPECIALLY how to waterproof. ( no cement board is not waterproof)
    I could name more examples, but I think you are smart enough to get what I'm saying.


    As far as crafting things to look good it is only hard if you don't know what you are doing. I have been making cast stone since I was 14 & I have won many awards for my & my employees craftsmanship for our cast stone & tile work.
    Yes, it does take skill, but most don't have it
    I generally agree with what you say other than the fact of qualifying "most" tile guys as hacks - sure maybe based on your experience but that does not necessarily mean it is true everywhere. And yes looking good does not mean the job was done properly such as proper shower waterproofing even though the tile work may look good but the same applies to plumbing which could be hacked and then covered up. And although I'm not in the trades myself I'm sure all trades have some form of continuing education - in the case of tile there is the TCNA and CTEF and new techniques and products are evolving all the time such as various thinsets, large format tiles and setting those with minimal lippage etc.

    To simply say tile setters are hacks and plumbers are professional is too much of a generalization IMO.

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    • #17
      Re: working with DIY. properly!!

      The quality in stone and tile work has gone down a bunch in the last 40-years. I had a tile guy that use to cost me a bunch but his work was incredible. Each tile was mudded individually and he had a level in his had almost the entire time. He'd send an entire week on a single tub or shower enclosure. Today a tile guy will slap some mud on and try to set 20-30 tiles before the mud sets. The two bathrooms I had him tile in my house are 30-years old and still look like new. After John retired we would recommend a couple of different guys and then we just gave up. Too many sharp edges and out of square tiles. Tile work isw a lot cheaper than it use to be but you have to pay to get a good (not cheap) tile guy.

      Mark
      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

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      • #18
        Re: working with DIY. properly!!

        Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
        The quality in stone and tile work has gone down a bunch in the last 40-years. I had a tile guy that use to cost me a bunch but his work was incredible. Each tile was mudded individually and he had a level in his had almost the entire time. He'd send an entire week on a single tub or shower enclosure. Today a tile guy will slap some mud on and try to set 20-30 tiles before the mud sets. The two bathrooms I had him tile in my house are 30-years old and still look like new. After John retired we would recommend a couple of different guys and then we just gave up. Too many sharp edges and out of square tiles. Tile work isw a lot cheaper than it use to be but you have to pay to get a good (not cheap) tile guy.

        Mark
        Having done my own bathroom remodel along with proper mud (rather than cement board) walls along with large format travertine I can attest to the amount of time taken to achieve good quality results with minimal lippage etc. While I cannot attest to the quality decline you do have to pay good money for a good craftsman and good quality results as it does take time.

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        • #19
          Re: working with DIY. properly!!

          Originally posted by CWSmith View Post
          Proper training and experience is crucial for any homeowner even thinking about touching their electrical system. Over the years I've seen some really terrible stuff done by guys who thought they knew how to do something. Even the simplest of tasks are sometimes hacked so badly it left me wondering what in the he!! were they thinking.

          I'm NOT an electrician, but have done enough to know what is right or wrong, and when I have even the slightest question I call an electrician. I've never done a big project without consulting an electrician, paying him in part, getting a proper permit, and having it inspected afterwards. In the case of my current home, I had an electrician upgrade my service, inspect and recommend any changes, and ask him what he wanted to do or what I could do with his inspection. Lots of stuff like trouble shooting wiring circuits, cleaning out and/or replacing old wiring, updating outlets and light fixtures are well within my means,.... BUT, it's great to review that with an electrician first and have him check things out afterwards. In most cases, my electrician (a licensed master) will tell me what he thinks I should do, because he knows my abilities and has seen the results of the care I take.

          However, there are just some things that I won't do, like run the service out to my detached garage. He's equipped to do that kind of thing and I know enough to just stay out of his way and let him do his thing. (Last thing any electrician needs in my opinion is to have the homeowner looking over his shoulder and asking a lot of questions. Questions are okay, after he's done; otherwise stay out of the man's way!) When I do my shop next year, I'll probably do most of the wiring, but only after I review the project with him.

          CWS
          this is exactly the type of person i meant in my first post.
          you are wise enough to listen and check with an electrician. you are the type of DIY i am proud to help.
          but i can also attest that i have seen more than a healthy share of those who i would ask to leave before i did any of the work
          all too often some places I actually put tamper seals on covers and log them.

          also regarding some tile setters i can echo that ive seen more than a few poor ones. (mostly because they prefered to do a job fast)
          and the bad part of it is that it reflects poorly on the good ones.
          quality work is not hard to find if one researches a bit.
          Im not a tiler or professional mason but i do recognize quality quite well
          I am more impressed by a person taking their time and doing a job correctly
          shooting the s*** is a lot more fun when you use hollow points (much more splatter)

          coffee hell gimme booze!!!

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          • #20
            Re: working with DIY. properly!!

            I am happy to give advice to DIYers but do have some reservations. Sometimes their one question can't be answered without asking 10 or 20 more.

            There are many who think they know what is right or wrong, but what they don't know they don't know. How many diy guys do a load calculation to determine if there is sufficient capacity to serve the addition their adding? How many derate ampacity for ambient temp, thermal insulation or number of cc wires in conduit? How many observe proper box fill rules? (Just to scratch the surface)

            More than 1/2 of the jobs I have seen by DIYers are done wrong. The problem with electricity is when they are finished, everything seems to be working perfectly. But a fire hazard may be lurking behind the walls.

            I will never put my license on the line to do a final hook up without looking over every inch of work someone else has done. Often easier to rip it all out and do it over and know its done correctly.

            I have been an Electrician for 27 years and still don't claim to know it all.

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            • #21
              Re: working with DIY. properly!!

              Originally posted by johncameron View Post

              I will never put my license on the line to do a final hook up without looking over every inch of work someone else has done. Often easier to rip it all out and do it over and know its done correctly.
              exactly thats why i first tell them how and what wire to run. i make all the connections in all boxes not just the main
              shooting the s*** is a lot more fun when you use hollow points (much more splatter)

              coffee hell gimme booze!!!

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: working with DIY. properly!!

                Tile people here are horrible as well. I have no idea what to say when asked for a recommendation. The last two I have ran into that have been doing it for "years" didn't have any idea about the weep holes and that they should keep them open.

                I'm the plumber and know this. They should accidentally know it. I'll ask them about a Schluter/Kerdi system and they go deer-in-headlights every time. They can't do an old school metal lathe & float system either.

                What's even worse is that these tile people are completely confident in their incorrect installations. They aren't running into the moldy & rotting installations of theirs that take a little while to surface.

                And homeowners seem to just look at finished product pictures and go with that. Anything done is only as good as the foundation behind it.

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                • #23
                  Re: working with DIY. properly!!

                  Originally posted by gnuuser View Post
                  exactly thats why i first tell them how and what wire to run. i make all the connections in all boxes not just the main
                  Even if you tell them how, they may still over drive a staple or something.

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                  • #24
                    Re: working with DIY. properly!!

                    following instructions to the letter includes how tight to drive the staples
                    as i said in the first post these guys are a team of re-builders and have specific guidelines to follow.
                    I also inspect the work prior to doing any connections,
                    I am just as strict with these guys as I am with my own apprentices.
                    and believe me I have no problem making them rip it out and re-do it properly
                    shooting the s*** is a lot more fun when you use hollow points (much more splatter)

                    coffee hell gimme booze!!!

                    Comment

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