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working with DIY. properly!!

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  • working with DIY. properly!!

    i have on occasion worked with a few DIY. but thankfully they consulted with me first.
    these guys were doing complete rebuilds and renovations.
    upon seeing the floor plans and the locations of where they wanted lights and outlets.
    i gave them explicit instructions of what cables to run, how to run them and where to run them
    with leaving long enough tails for me to make the connections. ((not installing them in the boxes or panels))
    also what junction boxes and where to put them.

    this made my job easier and saved them a bit in the pocketbook.
    they followed instructions to the letter. and do good work.
    my concern is for safety and I'm very strict about it.
    i have no problem working with these guys

    ive run into a fair share of electricians who have an avid hatred for DIY.
    but every so often i have to remind them they were once DIY in one form or another.
    shooting the s*** is a lot more fun when you use hollow points (much more splatter)

    coffee hell gimme booze!!!

  • #2
    Re: working with DIY. properly!!

    I always give the homeowner the opportunity to do the digging themselves or hire their gardner. No need for me to charge them my wages for digging ditches.

    Also if they want to help, it brings my time down and therefore my bill. They usually like to.

    Rick.
    phoebe it is

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: working with DIY. properly!!

      I don't spend much if any time on electrical related sites but definitely DIY bashing is rife on plumbing sites. It's a common subject which repeatedly gets rehashed somewhat like politics. I'm also a member of stone and tile related sites and there the atmosphere is quite different - most pros work with the DIYers and sometimes the pros get work from non-pros through the site in many cases by showing their knowledge thorough helping DIYers.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: working with DIY. properly!!

        like many other areas there are diy-hacks and diy-pros. the pros are the ones who consult us and then do the job armed with knowledge and understanding where to STOP. the hacks know everything.
        ~~

        ... it was plumbed by Ray Charles and his helper Stevie Wonder

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: working with DIY. properly!!

          Originally posted by blue_can View Post
          I don't spend much if any time on electrical related sites but definitely DIY bashing is rife on plumbing sites. It's a common subject which repeatedly gets rehashed somewhat like politics. I'm also a member of stone and tile related sites and there the atmosphere is quite different - most pros work with the DIYers and sometimes the pros get work from non-pros through the site in many cases by showing their knowledge thorough helping DIYers.
          Never saw a stone mistake Blow the roof off a house and kill the children !
          I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: working with DIY. properly!!

            I'm glad that some of you actually allow the DIY person to do "grunt work" and sometimes even more
            skilled work under your supervision.

            I have the tools, the knowledge but not all the appropriate licenses..Thus I need the licensed professional
            to do the "final hook up" or whatever the license or building code delineates. An excellent example is
            the installation of a gas fired water heater....That is not rocket science securing the gas line! BUT that
            does require by law to have a licensed plumber do that connection!

            I understand the importance of a "licensed professional" [although a lot of them are also hacks only
            out for the bucks!] My homeowner's insurance demands any work done on my home requires building
            permits and done according to current applicable codes! Otherwise should a need for my insurance
            to pay they can deny my claim!

            Many DIY folks do not understand the purpose of building permits and building codes as they think
            they know better and figure they can beat the system. Now to be fair there are licensed folks that
            oversell the job or charge way beyond reason! In today's economy and the fact Home Depot sells
            2x4s the DIY person feels he can do the job at a lower cost.

            Finally, the building permit process has also become corrupt! The entities providing the permits have realized
            these things are revenue generators and have raised the costs to ridiculous amounts!
            There is a story in a ham radio reflector where a city has decided to charge $1000.00 for a building
            permit to install a ham radio antenna tower!

            I really miss the original "this old house" series where the homeowner does a lot of the work. some
            grunt work some skilled depending upon their skill level. Today all they do is bring in the trades
            and for a few hundred thousand dollars redo your home!

            Cactus Man

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: working with DIY. properly!!

              Originally posted by toolaholic View Post
              Never saw a stone mistake Blow the roof off a house and kill the children !
              Sure stone can kill. An incorrectly set stone tile in a shower ceiling coming down can easily kill someone. A stone slab set incorrectly on a vertical surface can do the same thing.

              Serious industrial accidents occur from time to time involving stone handling since it is such a heavy material.

              Gas is not the only thing that kills.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: working with DIY. properly!!

                We were the same way when it came to digging. With the exception of life safety issues, I have no problem with helping owners with their own work.

                Mark
                "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: working with DIY. properly!!

                  Originally posted by blue_can View Post
                  I don't spend much if any time on electrical related sites but definitely DIY bashing is rife on plumbing sites. It's a common subject which repeatedly gets rehashed somewhat like politics. I'm also a member of stone and tile related sites and there the atmosphere is quite different - most pros work with the DIYers and sometimes the pros get work from non-pros through the site in many cases by showing their knowledge thorough helping DIYers.


                  That's because most tile guys are hacks.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: working with DIY. properly!!

                    Originally posted by toolaholic View Post
                    Never saw a stone mistake Blow the roof off a house and kill the children !

                    That you know of -


                    But I have seen them flood houses & cause enough mold that it took 3 haz-mat teams to clean up.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: working with DIY. properly!!

                      Originally posted by cactusman View Post
                      ... My homeowner's insurance demands any work done on my home requires building permits and done according to current applicable codes! Otherwise should a need for my insurance to pay they can deny my claim!
                      That's a very interesting fact. I'll bet most homeowners who skip the permit aren't aware of this.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: working with DIY. properly!!

                        Proper training and experience is crucial for any homeowner even thinking about touching their electrical system. Over the years I've seen some really terrible stuff done by guys who thought they knew how to do something. Even the simplest of tasks are sometimes hacked so badly it left me wondering what in the he!! were they thinking.

                        I'm NOT an electrician, but have done enough to know what is right or wrong, and when I have even the slightest question I call an electrician. I've never done a big project without consulting an electrician, paying him in part, getting a proper permit, and having it inspected afterwards. In the case of my current home, I had an electrician upgrade my service, inspect and recommend any changes, and ask him what he wanted to do or what I could do with his inspection. Lots of stuff like trouble shooting wiring circuits, cleaning out and/or replacing old wiring, updating outlets and light fixtures are well within my means,.... BUT, it's great to review that with an electrician first and have him check things out afterwards. In most cases, my electrician (a licensed master) will tell me what he thinks I should do, because he knows my abilities and has seen the results of the care I take.

                        However, there are just some things that I won't do, like run the service out to my detached garage. He's equipped to do that kind of thing and I know enough to just stay out of his way and let him do his thing. (Last thing any electrician needs in my opinion is to have the homeowner looking over his shoulder and asking a lot of questions. Questions are okay, after he's done; otherwise stay out of the man's way!) When I do my shop next year, I'll probably do most of the wiring, but only after I review the project with him.

                        CWS

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: working with DIY. properly!!

                          Originally posted by MR.FUDD View Post
                          That's because most tile guys are hacks.
                          I don't follow this comment. Are you saying tile guys are more willing to help out DIYers because they are hacks. How do you draw that conclusion? What do you mean by most and what do you class as a "hack" exactly? What is the source of your information?

                          As far as crafting things to look good finish work is hard and fabricating stone as well as tile takes a lot of skill. A lot of time hack plumbing can be covered up unlike hack finish work so in that regard it is harder. One of the sites I visit has a "hack" thread showing badly done tile work.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: working with DIY. properly!!

                            Originally posted by CWSmith View Post
                            Proper training and experience is crucial for any homeowner even thinking about touching their electrical system. Over the years I've seen some really terrible stuff done by guys who thought they knew how to do something. Even the simplest of tasks are sometimes hacked so badly it left me wondering what in the he!! were they thinking.

                            I'm NOT an electrician, but have done enough to know what is right or wrong, and when I have even the slightest question I call an electrician. I've never done a big project without consulting an electrician, paying him in part, getting a proper permit, and having it inspected afterwards. In the case of my current home, I had an electrician upgrade my service, inspect and recommend any changes, and ask him what he wanted to do or what I could do with his inspection. Lots of stuff like trouble shooting wiring circuits, cleaning out and/or replacing old wiring, updating outlets and light fixtures are well within my means,.... BUT, it's great to review that with an electrician first and have him check things out afterwards. In most cases, my electrician (a licensed master) will tell me what he thinks I should do, because he knows my abilities and has seen the results of the care I take.

                            However, there are just some things that I won't do, like run the service out to my detached garage. He's equipped to do that kind of thing and I know enough to just stay out of his way and let him do his thing. (Last thing any electrician needs in my opinion is to have the homeowner looking over his shoulder and asking a lot of questions. Questions are okay, after he's done; otherwise stay out of the man's way!) When I do my shop next year, I'll probably do most of the wiring, but only after I review the project with him.

                            CWS
                            On the subject of pros screwing up - I ended up doing some rewiring on my home after a GFCI went faulty and I discovered incorrectly wired circuits - still not sure how that got past inspection.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: working with DIY. properly!!

                              Originally posted by blue_can View Post
                              I don't follow this comment. Are you saying tile guys are more willing to help out DIYers because they are hacks. How do you draw that conclusion? What do you mean by most and what do you class as a "hack" exactly? What is the source of your information?

                              As far as crafting things to look good finish work is hard and fabricating stone as well as tile takes a lot of skill. A lot of time hack plumbing can be covered up unlike hack finish work so in that regard it is harder. One of the sites I visit has a "hack" thread showing badly done tile work.



                              Blue you are reading too much into this, but if you insist I will explain.


                              I'm saying most tile guys don't have same level of professionalism of like a master plumber who has taken many years of training & education to master their craft & continue with their education.


                              How did I come to that conclusion. 37 years of construction experience, watching guys with only a grinder & a trowel who think they know how to set tile properly, & ripping out the mess they installed.
                              A poor tile job is easy to rip out, but a good tile job takes some work.




                              A hack is someone who constructs something in a grossly improper way & it prematurely fails due to their workmanship.


                              What's my source Wikipedia


                              Just because it looks good does not mean it was constructed properly.
                              Most tile guys don't know what size notch trowel to use with the size of tile they are setting, what adhesive to use & how to use the adhesive & ESPECIALLY how to waterproof. ( no cement board is not waterproof)
                              I could name more examples, but I think you are smart enough to get what I'm saying.


                              As far as crafting things to look good it is only hard if you don't know what you are doing. I have been making cast stone since I was 14 & I have won many awards for my & my employees craftsmanship for our cast stone & tile work.
                              Yes, it does take skill, but most don't have it

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