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  • #46
    At that time i didn't have a lock for the breakers. If you notice how some for the breaker switch's have a hole in them that is meant to a lockout device. There are several others for gasolines and other valves or switch's. But the guy that turn the power on had no business doing anything near that panel. A few guys were running around the house painting all the light switch's. And i guess they needed to see their work? Lets just say one of them avoided me at the rest of the homes we did after that! If i had put some tap across that breaker then i wouldn't have been shocked. But sometimes people just take off the tape and never read what is written on it. My old boss lost a second pair of wire strippers that way.
    "Diplomacy is saying nice dodging until you can find a rock." Will Rogers
    "If a Monkey can do your job, are you in the right profession?

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    • #47
      Originally posted by ELECTRICMAN
      guys check this out

      you all tell me who is liable or who will the courts see liable


      http://www.local6.com/money/7302637/detail.html
      ELCTRICMAN, afterviewing the video and reading the article, it is my opinion that metal studs, metal screws, and metal ductwork should ALL be completely outlawed and every one of them that have been used must be replaced imidiately. GET REAL, a freak accident happened and what does this story have to do with this or any forum or advice given to or by anyone? Your advice was not asked for, go away. Now that is MY opinion.
      info for all: http://www.hoistman.com http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/index....wwtoolinfoforu --- "I like long walks, especially when they are taken by people who annoy me."

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      • #48
        [QUOTE=RobertCDF]I do believe that electrons are a bunch of arrogant pricks...

        like josh would say watch the name calling

        there is no need for that
        use this instead @!#$%*&)?!?
        Charlie

        My seek the peek fundraiser page
        http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


        http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

        new work pictures 12/09
        http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

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        • #49
          i've got a question

          if the wall is steel studs, then the outlet boxes would be steel? if the boxes are steel, then they are grounded by the fact that they are connected to a receptacle via the screws. the outlet or plug would make the bond to the box?

          is this enough to have grounded the studs indirectly?



          we have the same codes for our newer type gas piping (csst) stainless steel. the pipe has to be able to flex away from a nail or screw. if it's straped within 2.5'' it has to be protected. if left loose it will flex away from the nail or screw. the nail plates that we use for protection are made of a high carbon steel that are suppose to resist a nail or screw


          long live the moles

          rick.
          phoebe it is

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK
            if the wall is steel studs, then the outlet boxes would be steel?
            Not necessarily. Bowers make a plastic steel-stud box, which I have used. Perfectly legal.

            Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK
            if the boxes are steel, then they are grounded by the fact that they are connected to a receptacle via the screws. the outlet or plug would make the bond to the box?
            Actually, metallic boxes containing receptacles are required to be bonded directly, not by contact with the receptacle. So what you should see is a (probably green) screw in the back of a box, and then running to the receptacle.

            is this enough to have grounded the studs indirectly?
            That would probably have kicked the breaker, and saved the man's life. It's not as guaranteed as it might seem, though. According to the story, for some reason power was shut off to the room in question. So, the circuit that energized the steel stud might have been from a distant circuit, passing through that room, headed to points distant. High resistances from long runs might have delayed the breaker tripping. Maybe.

            The lack of a definute, rock-solid solution to this problem is what prevents action on it, IMO. Chances are good that with the publicity, some action will be taken. Hopefully, it will be effective and deliberate, not some knee-jerk response that's a pain in the rear without absolute results.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Rocky Mountain Sparky


              According to the story, for some reason power was shut off to the room in question. So, the circuit that energized the steel stud might have been from a distant circuit, passing through that room, headed to points distant. High resistances from long runs might have delayed the breaker tripping. Maybe.
              I have got to disagree with this statement for the following reasons. Even thought the power was off killing the feed, the hot, the blackwire. That does not disconnect the white or grounds. They are not switched.
              SSG, U.S. Army
              Retired
              K.I.S.S., R.T.F.M.

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              • #52
                TOD, you think he was killed by a neutral in this case?

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Rocky Mountain Sparky
                  TOD, you think he was killed by a neutral in this case?
                  No what I was trying to say just because the power was off in that room it does not disconnect the neutral or ground. The studs were getting a feed from another part of the house. With out looking at the house where this happened I would quess that all outlet and switch boxes are plastic or a non conducting material. The only thing that baffles me about the hole thing is the service panel. How was it mounted? Was it screwed to the metal studs? Was it isolated from the studs? I am in no way an expert when it comes to being an electrician, but I did 3 years of school at a votech when I was in high school the course was industrial electricity.
                  SSG, U.S. Army
                  Retired
                  K.I.S.S., R.T.F.M.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    "But the guy that turn the power on had no business doing anything near that panel. "

                    Those are the ones that will kill you.
                    "When we build let us think we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone. Let it be such work that our descendants will thank us for, and let us think, as we lay stone upon stone, that a time is to come when these stones will be held sacred because our hands have touched them, and that men will say, as they look upon the labor and wrought substance of them, "See! This our fathers did for us."
                    John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Bob D.
                      "But the guy that turn the power on had no business doing anything near that panel. "

                      Those are the ones that will kill you.
                      Those are also the ones that can't understand the writing and when i yell something they don't understand anything i said. One more little event that makes my a little frustrated. (PUTTING IT MILDLY OF COURSE!!!!!)
                      Last edited by Polar Sparky 1224; 02-25-2006, 08:39 PM.
                      "Diplomacy is saying nice dodging until you can find a rock." Will Rogers
                      "If a Monkey can do your job, are you in the right profession?

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Wow

                        Originally posted by MD MASTER SPARKY View Post
                        Finnaly Some Sense

                        Thank You !!!!

                        I,m Surprised That A Rigid Rep Has Not Posted Any Input

                        I'm Also Sure That Some Legal Action Can Be Taken To Have This Site Removed Or At The Very Least Properle Moderated.

                        As A Licensed Master Electrician And Contractor And Since I Have Nothing Better To Do I Will Be Contacting Rigid.
                        I hope that we also can do something about unlicensed indivudles at big box stores not only selling this stuff but also telling people how to use it! have they tested with their state and or local gov. Gee why are their codes ? Maybe for everyones health ??

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: Wow

                          Originally posted by ELECTRICMAN View Post
                          I AM A MASTER ELECTRICIAN LICENSED IN 4 STATES AND OVER 50 JURISDICTIONS I HAVE BEEN IN THE TRADE FOR OVER 25 YEARS

                          I HAVE BEEN MONOTORING THIS FORUM FOR THE PAST COUPLE OF WEEKS
                          AND I BELIEVE THIS SITE IS AN INSULT TO THE CONSTRUCTION INDUSTRY AND TO THE ELECTRICAL TRADE

                          ARE THERE ANY MODERATORS ON THIS SITE??
                          AND IF SO ARE ANY OF THEME LICENSED ELECTRICIANS??

                          I BELIEVE THAT ANY THREAD POSTED ON HERE WHICH IS DANGEROUS IN NATURE SHOULD IMMEDIATELY BE REMOVED SUCH AS THE MOLE THING
                          OTHERS VEWING THIS STUFF AT HOME MAY ACTUALLY TRY TO DO THIS STUFF

                          A TRUE ELECTRICIAN WHO HAS ANY KNOLEDGE ABOUT ELECTRICITY AND WHAT IT CAN DO TO A PERSON WILL NEVER GIVE ANY D.I.Y TO HOME OWNERS FOR THE SIMPLE FACT THAT MANY THINGS CAN BE MISINTERPITED
                          AND SOMEONE MAY DIE OR LOOSE THEIR HOME.

                          I CANNOT BELIEVE THAT A COMPANY SUCH AS RIGID WOULD ALLOW
                          THIS TO GO ON ON THEIR SITE
                          SO PONDER THIS WHEN A HOME OWNER ASKS FOR ADVICE ON THIS FORUM
                          THEN GOES ON TO DO THE WORK AND IETHER HAS MISINTERPITED THE ADVICE OR JUST PLAINLY DOES IT INCORRECTLY AND HIS HOUSE BURNS DOWN OR KILLS SOMEONE
                          HIS NEXT STEP WILL BE TO A LAW OFFICE AND HE WILL SAY WELL I GOT MY ADVICE FROM THIS SITE
                          WILL RIGID ACCEPT THE LIABILITY??

                          THIS SITE SHOULD AT THE VERY LEAST BE MODERATED BY A QUALIFIED INIVIDUAL

                          Qualified Person. A person who has the skill and knowledge related to the construction and operation of the electrical equipment and its installation. This person must have received safety training on the hazards involved with electrical systems.
                          My how things have changed,even on this forum.Yet not so much after all.

                          I cracked up laughing last week when my old drinking buddy the licensed (30yrs)electrician popped and blew the ends off his linesmens right in front of me and the hotel owner.

                          Oh the human being is so entertaining.

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