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question about power and my TS3650

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  • question about power and my TS3650

    Hi:

    I have a question about using my new TS3650 and I wonder if someone here
    might be able to help me. I am very pleased with my saw, but when I turn it
    on there is a huge power drain (maybe wrong term) before it gets up to speed. Once it even caused a circuit breaker to activate and knocked the power off. The saw is coupled with a 5hp shop vac which I have running before turning on my saw. When the breaker popped I'm pretty sure it was because too many other things were turned on in my house so I didn't worry too much about it. This hasn't happened again. My shop is in my garage and plugged into a 110 outlet. I've never had this problem before but the TS3650 is the biggest tool I've owned.

    So, I'm wondering if I have a problem here or is the big power drain at startup only what is to be expected from a large saw like the ts3650.

    I've been told I need to install a 220 outlet because my setup could start a fire. I thought the breaker did its job so nothing to worry about.....Any advice or suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks much,

    Maryjo

  • #2
    maryjo,

    I am not an electrician and hestitate to offer any type of electrical advice on this section of the forum these days. However I will say that I had a similar problem (although I did not pop any breaker) and solved that problem by installing a seperate 30 Amp run to a couple of new outlets in my garage which I now use only for my power tools. It seems to work fine for me and I normally only run 1 tool at a time. The table saw, jointer and planer are the biggest power draws in my shop and I thought it would be a good idea. I don't see that converting your saw to a 220V is necessary, but you will want to look into running a new circuit (at least 1) to your garage just for your tools. Running your saw at 220V will draw less amps and require a new circuit anyways. That would be your choice.

    I am sure you will get better advice from others on this forum and some of the electricians by trade can give you more concise advise.

    WWS
    Still enjoying all 10 fingers!

    Comment


    • #3
      I have had the same experience in my garage !

      One evening recently I had the lights on, a small space heater running to keep my fingers from turning blue, the shop vac running and I started up my TS2400.

      All was fine until I fed my board into the saw and the extra load was enough to trip the breaker on the 20A circuit that feeds the garage.

      Everything went dark and I was left fumbling for the manual override for the garage door in the pitch black

      Needless to say the next significant purchase for my shop is going to be hiring a pro to install a couple of new circuits. In fact I was reccommended to run 2 new 120V circuits and a 220V (for future growth).

      Until the funds for this are secured, I am very careful about the load I put on the 20A circuit at one time, and I still see a dimming of the light when the jointer starts up !

      Comment


      • #4
        First off, let me tell you that I'm not a certified electrician. There, now that I've made that statement, let me reason this out to the best of my experience and abilities.

        You need to know what the amp rating of your circuit is. Most often, you'll find 15 amp circuits the most common throughout the house and even in the garage. The breaker (or fuse, if you have a rather old home) will be 15 amp and the wiring will usually be 14 guage. The 3650 is rated at 15 amp which really maximizes the circuit and it will probably draw all of that at start-up and when under load. Anything added to that circuit, like vacs and lights will overload the circuit and you'll definitely trip the breaker.

        20 amp circuits are common for circuits where some "load" may have been pre-determined. While your saw will run fine with a 20 amp circuit (20-amp breaker and 12 gauge wiring), you can easily see that adding additional items to the load, like vacs, lights and heaters will quickly add up. Bear in mind that items like incandescent bulbs and heaters (anything that generates heat requires more amps) adds more "load" than most shop vacs and florescent lighting.

        If I were going to wire my shop, I'd probably put the saw on it's own, dedicated 20 amp circuit or look into going 220 volts (doubling the voltage [110 to 220] cuts the load in amperage in half). I'd put my lights on a totally separate circuit, with the idea that you never want to have your power tool trip the breaker and leave you in the dark. (From my experience, I prefer my lighting to be divided on two separate circuits... I don't want to have the lights go out while I have a power tool running either!)

        Really, a shop needs to have several dedicated circuits so that you don't overload any single circuit by running multiple machines. Similarly, electric heaters really should be run separately too. Bottom line being is that you need to take into account your electical requirements and then plan your circuits around them. For safety, any garage or basement area should also employ GFI receptacles or breakers. That ground floor and damp footing places you in extreme danger should anything ever short. So, plan out your needs and then find yourself a qualified electrician to give you a hand.

        CWS
        Last edited by CWSmith; 03-14-2006, 09:07 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          My garage outlets are GFI and on a 15 amp breaker. If I start the 3650 (13 amp running but a lot more of an "inductive" load when starting up )with my vac running (7.4 amp) it definitely will dim the bench light on the same circuit. I now hook the vac up to the plug by my garage door opener, which is a different circuit, and don't see near as much "dimming"of the light. Even with a 20 amp circuit, a shop vac + the 3650 is pushing the limits IMHO.
          Practicing at practical wood working

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by maryjo
            So, I'm wondering if I have a problem here or is the big power drain at startup only what is to be expected from a large saw like the ts3650.
            Happiness is aquiring big enough toys to kick a breaker.

            I've been told I need to install a 220 outlet because my setup could start a fire.
            This saw really needs a dedicated circuit. So then you're left with a choice between 120V or 240V.

            Given the capability of your new saw to run at 120V or 240V, I'd add a 20amp dedicated 240V receptacle for this saw. The cost for configuring the circuit for 240V is not much higher than if it were 120V, and I imagine it would have less of a hard time starting up at a higher voltage. I imagine it would sing.

            I thought the breaker did its job so nothing to worry about.....
            Well, yes and no. You should be concerned, because overloading circuits taxes them unnecessarily, and repeated tripping is hard on circuit breakers, too. I would definutely get a dedicated circuit for the saw, and while I was at it, I'd be adding a couple circuits with 120V GFCI-protected receptacles around the area too. If your workshop is sharing circuits with the rest of the house, that's not doing your workshop proud.

            Comment


            • #7
              A motor typically pulls anywhere from 4 to 6 times its normal running current when it first starts. So a 15 amp motor can easily initially draw 60 amps or better when it is first energized.
              The reason it doesn't trip right away is that the breaker is an inverse time device. In other words, if the current is slightly over it's limit, it may take quite awhile to trip. The higher the current gets, the faster it trips.
              The fact that you already had another load on is what pushed it to trip that one time.
              Saying that a breaker did its job and tripped is like saying a bullet proof vest did its job. How many times do you want to push your luck?
              If you upgrade your circuit, make sure you do it by code (ie-matching the wire AWG to the breaker, running a ground, etc.). Whatever you do, don't just put in a bigger breaker.

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              • #8
                thanks to everyone for your suggestions.

                Maryjo

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