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  • question about 240V outlet

    Hi: I want to install a 220 volt outlet in my garage for my TS3650. In my house the 220 for the clothes dryer is located on the other side of the wall next to the garage. My question is will I have to install a new circuit from the
    service panel to the garage or can I connect it to the circuit which already exists for my clothes dryer and run that into the garage?

    I apologize for the terminology here and I hope this question makes sense. A new circuit will be a real problem as there doesn't appear to be any room for an additional breaker.

    I appreciate any suggestions anyone may can offer me?

    Thanks much,

    Maryjo
    Last edited by maryjo; 03-31-2006, 07:41 PM.

  • #2
    maryjo, the dryer is typically a 30 amp circuit. the saw will require either a 15 or 20 amp circuit. so the answer is yes, you do need a deticated circuit for the saw. each appliance needs a dedicated circuit.
    it's possible that you might be able to install the thin breakers in your panel

    if not you will need a sub panel.

    let the sparks fly

    rick.
    phoebe it is

    Comment


    • #3
      With respect for Plumber Rick, unless your local electric code requires separate circuits, I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to branch off the 220 v that currently exists on the other side of the wall. As Rick mentioned, the load of both your saw and the dryer running at the same time would (and should) dictate a separate circuit, but if you aren't going to run the dryer at the same time, you may be fine.

      I believe your saw is rated at 13/6.5 Amp 120/ 240 Volt AC. The primary reason for having a dual voltage-capable motor is that you can go with the higher voltage if your circuit is approaching its maximum amp rating and possibly overheating the wires.

      So, while I'm NOT an certified electrician, I reason that it would certainly prove more economical to use an existing line that would otherwise be dormant (dryer not in use), rather than running another 220 from your home's main load panel. But, you really need to contact a local certified electrician and have him appraise the situation. He will be up-to-date on your local electrical code requirements. You might also wish to contact your local municipal building/electrical code enforcement office to ask about such requirements, then contact the electrician to have him properly do the work.

      I hope this helps,

      CWS

      Comment


      • #4
        I got to go with Plumber Rick on this one. With the dryer having a 30 amp breaker that means that the saw will also have 30 amps available to it. Under a heavy load you could over load the motor and cause it to burn out rather than trip a 15 or 20 amp breaker.
        SSG, U.S. Army
        Retired
        K.I.S.S., R.T.F.M.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by CWSmith
          With respect for Plumber Rick, unless your local electric code requires separate circuits, I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to branch off the 220 v that currently exists on the other side of the wall. As Rick mentioned, the load of both your saw and the dryer running at the same time would (and should) dictate a separate circuit, but if you aren't going to run the dryer at the same time, you may be fine.

          I believe your saw is rated at 13/6.5 Amp 120/ 240 Volt AC. The primary reason for having a dual voltage-capable motor is that you can go with the higher voltage if your circuit is approaching its maximum amp rating and possibly overheating the wires.

          So, while I'm NOT an certified electrician, I reason that it would certainly prove more economical to use an existing line that would otherwise be dormant (dryer not in use), rather than running another 220 from your home's main load panel. But, you really need to contact a local certified electrician and have him appraise the situation. He will be up-to-date on your local electrical code requirements. You might also wish to contact your local municipal building/electrical code enforcement office to ask about such requirements, then contact the electrician to have him properly do the work.

          I hope this helps,

          CWS
          CWS, she never mentioned anything that the dryer is not used anymore. a dryer circuit is 30 amps. you can't piggyback off of a dedicated circuit.

          if the dryer is never going to be used then you can replace the breakers to a 15 or 20 amp breaker and continue the run to the saw. the wires to the dryer will be #10 or #8. the new saw will require #14 for a 15 amp circuit or #12 for a 20 amp circuit. personally i never use 14 gauge wire.

          rick.
          phoebe it is

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks to all for your input. My layman's reasoning is that since my saw can
            be plugged into a normal 110-120V wall outlet with a 15amp breaker, then it's highly unlikely that its power/breaker requirements will be greater than those of my clothes dryer which must always be plugged into a 220-240V outlet and which has a dedicated circuit. Also, if I extend the line from the dryer's 220-240V circuit, then won't this be the same as a dedicated line, as long as the dryer isn't being used at the same time as the saw? I read somewhere about others powering their saws via a "branch circuit" from their dryer, but the meaning of this really wasn't clear to me since a dedicated line from the panel could be thought of as a branch.

            I was worried about the expense of putting in a new panel box but I didn't know I can install an extension to my current panel so that may be the answer to that problem.

            Once again, I appreciate your input. If I can understand what needs to be done, then I hope to save money by doing the work myself and then getting an electrician to come and inspect it.

            any more thoughts or ideas?

            Maryjo

            Comment


            • #7
              this might be the next "mole"

              maryjo,

              will it work, yes.

              is it safe, no.

              the breakers to the dryer should be a twin 30 amp. the saw requires no more than a twin 20 amp. every 240 volt outlet requires a dedicated circuit.

              so, if you tap into the dryer outlet and run it to your saw, will it work? yes.

              is it legal, is it safe, would i do it at my home? no,no,no.

              sparkies, please chime in. this might be the next mole

              rick
              phoebe it is

              Comment


              • #8
                Rick and MaryJo,

                My thoughts were that the line run to the dryer may well be a dedicated 30 amp line, but does it have to be? Unless there is an electrical code prohibiting it, you may be able to branch off the line to a separate breaker box which is properly sized to the saw's ampload. (Note that at 240 volts, the saw only requires about 7 amps.) That is why I mentioned consulting a local electrician or code enforcement official. While I agree that the total of both saw and dryer running simultaneously would overload the main 30 amp dedicated line, my thought was that the saw could safely be used when the dryer was not in operation. (I didn't say or mean that the dryer wasn't in use anymore, I simply stated that when the dryer was not being used, the saw could be used safely without overloading the line.) Again, a local electrician or code enforcement official needs to be consulted.

                I may be mistaken in my failure to mention the breakout box that would separately protect the saw from overload, but I reasoned that the motor is equipped with its own overload protection; which, I believe, at one time anyway, was all that was required by the NEC. But, updates may well have further requirements and this is why I feel it is essential that a qualified electrician or code enforcement official needs to be consulted. Failure to meet code requirements isn't just a matter of beauracracy, it can be lethal.

                Furthermore, if any of these circuits are on a ground floor (concrete basement, garage, or similar area), then the circuits need to employ GFI breakers, for your protection. Again, a qualified electrician in your area, needs to be consulted.

                CWS
                Last edited by CWSmith; 04-02-2006, 12:23 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  A few questions for ya....

                  How comfortable are you sticking you fingers into a live panel?

                  You can not tap onto your dryer outlet!

                  By code when sizing your wire for the demand of the dryer you need to go off the name plate rating. So say your dryer says it runs at 5000 watts you then divide 5000 by 240 and you know you need a wire that can handle 21 amps. And then you have to use a at least a 10/3 AWG for this. Your existing wires for the dryer outlet were not sized to have another load added. So you can either redo the wire going to your dryer outlet if you want to tap into it (which i wouldn't do!)or you can just run a dedicated circuit to where your saw is going to be.

                  Gfci's are only required in unfinished basements and garages that are not a dedicated circuit.

                  Does anyone have a freezer in the garage and it nuisance trips the gfci?

                  Either read you books really good and turn of the power to your whole house when you do this or get a professional to put it in.

                  If you already have sheet rock up around you panel you can save some money by removing it yourself so they can run the wire in less time.
                  "Diplomacy is saying nice dodging until you can find a rock." Will Rogers
                  "If a Monkey can do your job, are you in the right profession?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks again to everyone for your advice. If I may ask one more question: how is the power turned off to the entire house? In the past, when I've done electrical work I've turned off all the power at the breaker box panel by switching all breakers to the off position but I don't think that will work if I need to install a dedicated line and add a new breaker to the panel.

                    I don't plan to do anything that will put me in danger. I do, however want to
                    learn everything I can about what needs to be done.

                    As I always tell my son, if you like to learn new things, there is never a reason for you to be bored with life.

                    thanks again. Maryjo

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      You can do it

                      Turn off the main, that is the big breaker either in the center or at the top. Leave all the other breakers on. If you turned off the correct breaker ALL the power in the house will be off. You have then de-energized the panel. The only live connections are the wires that enter the main breaker and the associated screws on the breaker.

                      BUT, if your not confident and comfortable, like the polar man says, call a pro.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thanks very much. I appreciate the help. Mary

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by BigThom
                          Turn off the main, that is the big breaker either in the center or at the top. Leave all the other breakers on. If you turned off the correct breaker ALL the power in the house will be off. You have then de-energized the panel. The only live connections are the wires that enter the main breaker and the associated screws on the breaker.

                          BUT, if your not confident and comfortable, like the polar man says, call a pro.
                          You mayl also find it outside in your meter panel. You should have a 100 or 200 amp breaker that will turn off you inside panel. If you do not have a main service disconnect CALL AN ELECTRICIAN. I have been shocked a few times but never with more than a few amps. Even i get edgy when working on a hot panel!
                          Last edited by Polar Sparky 1224; 04-02-2006, 09:31 PM.
                          "Diplomacy is saying nice dodging until you can find a rock." Will Rogers
                          "If a Monkey can do your job, are you in the right profession?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I think the point he is missing is that the breaker for the drier is 30 amps. His saw is designed to pull several amps less and be on a circuit that for arguments sake is 15 amps. If the saw malfunctions or there is a surge his breaker should trip at 15 amps however he will be plugging into a 30 amp breaker so it wont trip until that 30 amps is exceeded which as far as I am concerned is BAD. At the best he fries his nice new saw, at worse he can be injured/killed or cause a fire.

                            Call an electriction... They know how to do this correctly. And no, I am one.

                            Kevin
                            Badges?!? We don\'t need no stinking badges!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              if you want to you can use that line and come off it, and then go into a two pole breaker box and put in 15 or 20 amp breakers and a plug below or where ever, and you would have the saw protected off the 30 amp dryer out let, by the second breaker box.

                              but you would not want to use the dryer when your wanting to saw,

                              on one of my job site table saws I actually have a two pole breaker box directly on the saw it self for the saws protection, and regardless of the amperage of the outlet avable the saw is protected,

                              also is the saw thermo protected? many tool motors have either a auto reseting or a manual reset if there over heated on the motor them selfs, I am not familiar with ridgid tools,
                              but if it does (it is not the best) but you could get buy just using the 30 amp circuit, but it would be better to add a additonal small sub panel and lower amperage breaker for the saw,

                              but you may want to add a few circurits or additional 230 volt out lets while your at it, I think that 85% of my machine tools are on 230 volts. Table saw, arm saw, shaper, horzonal shaper, sander, planer,


                              the other option is to have new wire pulled between the old panel and up the breaker size and put in a sub panel in the shop and then back off the sub panel back to the dryer and then add some more out lets and 230 volt outlets in the shop for future needs,
                              Last edited by BHD; 04-03-2006, 11:52 PM.
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