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Anybody installed a new R410 system

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  • Anybody installed a new R410 system

    I am scheduled for a R410 class in December 06. I have been told, always change out your line set because the oil in the R22 system will turn to sludge when it mixes with the R410. Others say just flush the old line set.

    Some say I will need a set of gauges strictly for the R410 systems and also a seperate vacum pump. You cannot get a consistant answer and contractors are out there installing R410 systems without any training.

    Also, are there any bugs with the new R410 system? I was quoted, from the supply house, twice as much as the R22 system for equipment so the customer is really going to cry when they get one of the new systems.....especially if the systems have serious operational deficiencies.

    Some of these systems sound really efficient....23 SEER with copeland two speed compressors in the new Amana.

  • #2
    I work for a wholesaler and I can tell you what most guys in my area (Cleveland,OH) are doing. There is a product made by NuCalgon called RX11 Flush. You use this to 'flush' the lines providing the existing lineset is the size that you need for the new 410a system. The way that you use it is by cutting or unbrazing the lineset and put in the proper amount and use nitrogen to push it in the liquid line through the coil and out the suction line into a bucket. If a new lineset is need because the line size is not correct then they are changing them out. There are a lot of 8 SEER out there that used a 5/16 liquid line in this case it would be best to change out the whole lineset.

    As far as the gauges we are selling a set by Ritchie that will handle R22, R410a, and R404a. All of the refrigerants use POE oil so they are fine to use on an existing unit that has R22 and uses mineral oil, because the amount of oil that ends up in your hoses is such a minimal amout your not going to have to worry about the small mixture. I could go on about the oil mixing debates but it always leads to a longer response. As far as the vacuum pump you should not need one based on the principal of what a vac pump does and how it works. Its not like your using the vac pump oil in the system. The oil in the pump should be changed after EVERY pump down any ways. The oil in your pump absorbs all of the noncondesables and water and wax, gel....etc.

    On the equipment side of things the reason is based on the cost of the new refrigerant, and the cost of the technology to develope it, as well as most mfg's are using a new rifle type tubing, and last but not least you have the increase in the SEER which has added more condensor passes (more copper and fin). Everything else is the same. But dont forget to figure the new evap which is larger than the old one in a change out so make sure you get a coil spec sheet to check any and all measurements.

    The funny thing about the increased SEER ratings is now people are going to end up with units that are as big as a small shed or kids play house. So much for the small unsightly 10 SEER units that you could cover up with boxwoods.

    Hope the class fills you in some more but I do check in from time to time so if you have any questions let me know !!!

    Ted

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    • #3
      I'm a field instal supervisor for a Service Expert Co. in Ill. I'v been installing and servicing 410A units for over 7 years now. I can tell you that the products I've worked with there is no defects, just installer earor. You must flush the line sett if reused. Agood practice is to just invest the the time and replace the line set. Durring a Carrier cirt class I waqs told to do a triple purg and vacume. ( blow out line set from liquad line to back with nitrogyn, pull into a vacume down to 700 - 500 microns. repeat this step 3 x) It's good to remove the txv durring these steps install it befor your final vacume. The only time you should reuse the old lineset is only when construction prohibits you from changing. ( no matter the size. )
      As for 410a gages? yes you do need them and remember to allways charge by superheat if fixed orphase or subcool if txv. Oh! make sure your txv is rated for 410a or it will not work. Good luck --- Ive installed the Lennox 21 Seer with the new humiditrole and the 94.5 % 2 stage furnace. I'm the leading installer in Ill. I installed one. LOL

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      • #4
        Personally ive been doing the 410 installs for a little while now. We always change out our linsets. I also use a seperate set of gauges for 410. How ever i was told that you should have a vacum pump thats seperate for the 410 but i have not yet done that.

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