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  • no heat

    not that i need heat with this weather, but i drained my system so i could raise a baseboard radiator (trying to renovate a bathroom, since the last contractor i hired screwed me over bigtime).

    what are the steps to purge the air from the system?

    thanks
    Last edited by CheekyMonkeyWrench; 05-01-2007, 08:14 PM.

  • #2
    Re: no heat

    Assuming you have done the pipe work correctly; yes you need to remove the air from the system or the water won't circulate. Air in the heating system is bad.

    Turn the feed valve to boiler back on. Each radiator should have a bleed valve on it to remove air. Sometimes baseboard rads only have 1 per floor. Look at the ends of each one to find a bleed valve. Open it til a little water leaks out then shut it off. Start at the lowest floor first and work your way up. Best to do this while the pump is running.

    At the beginning of next heating season you will likey have to bleed it some more.


    Hope this helps

    ~Bill

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: no heat

      Great advice but let me add a few things. Place a dish basin or oven dish under the valve. Place a coffee cup upside down over the valve and open it. This way there's no mess. I've had the best luck letting the water run for a while-20 seconds of steady water/ no air bubbles. You should also have a globe valve close to the pump on the discharge side. You can get the majority of air out there so do this first. Hook a garden hose to the valve to outside and you're set.
      Buy cheap, buy twice.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: no heat

        thanks for the replies guys.

        unfortunately, i checked all radiators and there are zero bleed valves, on either end of any radiator.

        the only place i noticed a bleed valve is at the top of the zone pipes coming off of the furnace.

        here's some pics

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: no heat

          CMW

          Try to look at this picture which is one of your's only I drew yellow arrows to show where you have 3 automatic (They may work but only when brand new) air vents. The first thing I would do is to shut down your boiler overnight as when you do the next steps you don't want to get sprayed with really hot water and get burned.

          The next part is to first have the pumps off and using an open wrench that fits, loosen up each of the vents until you hear air or see some water coming out around the threads. Be ready for a mess and let each one squirt for a few seconds. Then tighten it up. Don't loosen it too much or it will pop out (I'm sure you know this) and you'll flood the place. You'll want to have about 15 PSI in the boiler so open the manual fill valve and have someone keep watch so he/she can close it once the pressure it up and open it if it falls much.

          Once you have done the above, start up the pumps and after a few minutes try the above again to be sure the air is out at that location.

          Now go look at all of your radiators. Is there some way (even if a bit crazy) to vent air at the radiator or baseboard? There should be manual bleeder valves, but sometimes it will be an automatic one or a small pipe plug you'll need to loosen until it just lets the air come out.

          Automatic air vents - bleeders get clogged with minerals or the corrode. To me they are worthless junk. I like the little manual ones that use a small key handle. Or an 1/8 brass pipe plug can work as long as you remember to loosen it slowly.

          What's real fun is trying to do this stuff with a hot boiler and not burn yourself. YEEEOUCH .... Always try to protect yourself and do have what you can on hand for a little flood mess cleaning up.
          Good luck

          Please heed the warning by PlumbersCrack and never add water to a hot boiler that's running low on water. In too many cases it will flash into steam and you'll be looking at far more serious issues KABOOM than just a new boiler if it does. Cut off power and get away from it fast.

          As to the vents, I would only unscrew them a little, and only with everything cooled off first. When I can get some, I'll cut one or two open and post some pictures of what happens to the insides of them. I bet that PC or Rick has such pictures.
          Attached Files
          Last edited by Woussko; 05-02-2007, 06:55 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: no heat

            I may be wrong, but aren't the valves located above each circulator a form of purge, drain and balance valve? If the heating devices are baseboard and not upright radiators, wouldn't each zone be bled of air by closing the slotted screw "valve" and opening the valve handle while attaching a garden hose to the purge port without running the circulators, assuming adequate supply line pressure? Comments would be appreciated.
            there's a solution to every problem.....you just have to be willing to find it.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: no heat

              woussko,

              the vents you pointed to, have a threaded release at the top. is that the part that gets clogged?

              also, which valve is the manual fill valve?

              thanks

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: no heat

                I love pictures!!

                First I would just like to say this: RUN AWAY from that boiler as fast as you can!!! Everything was ok 'til I saw the close up of the pressure gauge. 200 degree water with zero pressure in boiler!!

                DO NOT under any circumstances add any water to that boiler while its hot unless you are in the market for a new one. You will crack that cast iron heat exchanger. I fear it may already be too late

                Ok the fill valve is the red object with all the paper tags hanging next to it. Its preset to about 15lbs. It has a lever that you can lift up to add more pressure. With lever straight up you should hear water rushing into boiler. Keep your eye on the pressure gauge at all times being careful pressure doesn't go above about 25 lbs.

                Finer knows what he's talking about.
                Originally posted by FINER9998 View Post
                I may be wrong, but aren't the valves located above each circulator a form of purge, drain and balance valve? If the heating devices are baseboard and not upright radiators, wouldn't each zone be bled of air by closing the slotted screw "valve" and opening the valve handle while attaching a garden hose to the purge port without running the circulators, assuming adequate supply line pressure? Comments would be appreciated.
                Close the all the screwdriver slots on balance/purge valves noting their position first so you can reset it when done purging. Open the purge valves 1 at a time with lever up on fill valve. Let water run til no more air comes out. This may take 10-15 mins for each zone. All of this is done with boiler turned off.

                You are just asking for trouble if you start messing with those auto-air vents in ceiling.

                Hope this helps,

                ~Bill

                P.S. Cut that coil out of the boiler and get yourself a indirect fired water heater
                Last edited by plumberscrack; 05-02-2007, 05:05 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: no heat

                  Originally posted by plumberscrack View Post
                  I love pictures!!

                  First I would just like to say this: RUN AWAY from that boiler as fast as you can!!! Everything was ok 'til I saw the close up of the pressure gauge. 200 degree water with zero pressure in boiler!!

                  DO NOT under any circumstances add any water to that boiler while its hot unless you are in the market for a new one. You will crack that cast iron heat exchanger. I fear it may already be too late

                  Ok the fill valve is the red object with all the paper tags hanging next to it. Its preset to about 15lbs. It has a lever that you can lift up to add more pressure. With lever straight up you should hear water rushing into boiler. Keep your eye on the pressure gauge at all times being careful pressure doesn't go above about 25 lbs.

                  Finer knows what he's talking about.


                  Close the all the screwdriver slots on balance/purge valves noting their position first so you can reset it when done purging. Open the purge valves 1 at a time with lever up on fill valve. Let water run til no more air comes out. This may take 10-15 mins for each zone. All of this is done with boiler turned off.

                  You are just asking for trouble if you start messing with those auto-air vents in ceiling.

                  Hope this helps,

                  ~Bill

                  P.S. Cut that coil out of the boiler and get yourself a indirect fired water heater

                  thanks a bunch bill. the screwdriver slots are the ones underneath the purge valves...correct? I assume i should hook-up a garden hose and run it outside if it may take up to 15 minutes.

                  the pressure was up to 15deg, and the temp about 170. i turned off the boiler, so tomorrow morning i can purge it.....hopefully, it isn't too late

                  thanks again,
                  pete

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: no heat

                    CMW

                    I don't recommend that you try to do anything with the air vents that I have the arrows pointing to. You'll end up with them leaking. My idea was to unscrew them just until air leaks out around the threads. I've done that many times. With your boiler cool and your trying to purge it, now might be a good time (with pressure at 0) to replace the air vents. They don't cost that much. I can't say what condition your's are in and they may be fine, but I have seen them all clogged with minerals (depends on water and such) at less than a year old. I can't really be sure from the pics but to me they look like simple float type air vents. I recommend going with what Finer and PC posted. I think you'll be fine. As for the gauge picture, it sure looks higher than 170 F and the pressure looks to be 0 or close. Let's hope it's just the picture.

                    Woussko: Shut up and go back into your hound hut. MOVE IT

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