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RED TECK 12a

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  • #16
    Re: RED TECK 12a

    Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
    Bad posting on my part,once when I was eight and again 15 years ago.It actually made me think how lucky I am to have been living with good plumbing.
    never have needed to plunge my pressure flush toilets here

    gobby, the reason adam asked about your toilet is because there was never any closure to your original question.

    non of us are trying to give you a hard time. it's a learning experience for all of us. not just the poster, but sharing of information is what makes this forum so addictive for me and others.

    a year ago, we had no real photos or avatars of ourselves. today we are proud to display our work, both good and bad. along with ourselves. if we didn't care about this forum, we wouldn't be wasting our time posting and answering questions for 99% of the real questions that come in. overtime we tend to weed out the ones that just leave us hanging.

    believe it or not, adam is probably the easiest going plumber on this forum.

    wait till plumbdog responds to some of these questions.

    none of us here mean any harm or disrespect. we enjoy the challenge and enjoy the teasing between us.

    stick around and continue posting, but we also need some answers and closure of the questions posted. it's a learning experience for all of us.

    thanks,

    rick.
    phoebe it is

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: RED TECK 12a

      drtyhands

      YES, I have heard of that problem with the cheapo glasses with molded plastic lenses in them. It would be wise to fist see a good eye doctor and have him/her check your eyes over carefully. Chances are you'll need more than just magnification, but if not, good optical shops can obtain good quality non prescription magnifying glasses for far less than doing them custom. This is something to discuss with your eye doctor. I had more in mind glasses you would wear only for a given task. I guess I need to think more of my own needs where I do have prescription glasses for both the computer and close-up reading and parts viewing.

      Maybe it's best if this thread gets back to the subject?

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: RED TECK 12a

        Originally posted by Woussko View Post
        drtyhands

        YES, I have heard of that problem with the cheapo glasses with molded plastic lenses in them. It would be wise to fist see a good eye doctor and have him/her check your eyes over carefully. Chances are you'll need more than just magnification, but if not, good optical shops can obtain good quality non prescription magnifying glasses for far less than doing them custom. This is something to discuss with your eye doctor. I had more in mind glasses you would wear only for a given task. I guess I need to think more of my own needs where I do have prescription glasses for both the computer and close-up reading and parts viewing.

        Maybe it's best if this thread gets back to the subject?
        It's all good Wousko

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: RED TECK 12a

          It's all good if Gobby just puts some clothes on.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: RED TECK 12a

            Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
            It's all good if Gobby just puts some clothes on.
            Lots of clothes on
            "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

            I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: RED TECK 12a

              Originally posted by BHD View Post

              pure propane is a replacement for R22
              Where can I find more info on this?
              Buy cheap, buy twice.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: RED TECK 12a

                First I am not sure that the EPA has approved the use of hydrocarbon refrigerants for use in the USA, do to the flammability issue, useless special precautions have been taken, and the way I remember it it was for industrial exceptions.
                and I think the sales of or use in automotive units is via a loop hold in the conversion of a R12 unit to 134A and then some wording that leaves it open to interpretation, (that was the was I remember it from my studies on hydrocarbons of a number of years ago, not sure if things have changed)
                so to use hydrocarbons as a refrigerant one will have to research the regulations for your area, and see if they allow it use.


                comparative performance of hydrocarbons refrigerants
                http://www.azaircare.com/COMPARATIVE...FRIGERANTS.pdf

                http://www.befreetech.com/envirosafe.htm

                http://www.oztechnologyinc.com/

                temp and pressure charts and other found below

                http://www.redtek.com/techinfo_refprop.html#


                EPA's view point
                http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/refrigerants/hc-12a.html

                the basic loop hole is in section 612,

                http://ces.iisc.ernet.in/hpg/envis/fredoc105.html According to section 612 of the federal Clean Air Act, non-ozone depleting refrigerants such as HC-12a are legal and lawful to use as a second generation replacement to "acceptable" first generation replacements such as HFC-134a. In other words, HC-12a is legal to use, but only after a customer pays to have his or her CFC system purged of banned CFCs, pays to have the system retrofitted to accommodate HFC-134a and then pays to have the system charged with HFC-134a. Only after the customer has decided that he or she does not want to continue using HFC-134a and only after going through the inconvenience and expense to accommodate it can the customer legally use the less expensive, less toxic, less corrosive, more energy efficient and environmentally friendly hydrocarbon product. This is federal law which is illogical to the point of absurdity.
                the complete article is an interesting article if one wants to read it http://ces.iisc.ernet.in/hpg/envis/fredoc105.html

                even tho it is a very good refrigerant and has many beneficial properties for the environment and your pocket book, the use of it is at best a bending of the EPA's rulings unless special considerations are met,

                Is sale of hydrocarbon refrigerants legal?
                Sale of substitute refrigerants listed under the SNAP program is not regulated under SNAP. However, statutes and regulations issued by other federal, state, or local agencies may control the sale of these products, http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/refrigerants/hc-12a.html
                Last edited by BHD; 08-06-2007, 12:40 PM.
                Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
                attributed to Samuel Johnson
                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: RED TECK 12a

                  Very interesting BHD. Never heard about the propane. A word of caution; you should have a warning posting stuff like that. I can see some moron who thinks they have a low charge, grab the propane tank from the grill then make some type of adapter fitting to charge his unit. That can't be good. Wait maybe it is when I come to fix his unit after he "charged" the unit correctly. LOL
                  Buy cheap, buy twice.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: RED TECK 12a

                    Originally posted by BHD View Post
                    First I am not sure that the EPA has approved the use of hydrocarbon refrigerants for use in the USA, do to the flammability issue, useless special precautions have been taken, and the way I remember it it was for industrial exceptions.
                    and I think the sales of or use in automotive units is via a loop hold in the conversion of a R12 unit to 134A and then some wording that leaves it open to interpretation, (that was the was I remember it from my studies on hydrocarbons of a number of years ago, not sure if things have changed)
                    so to use hydrocarbons as a refrigerant one will have to research the regulations for your area, and see if they allow it use.


                    comparative performance of hydrocarbons refrigerants
                    http://www.azaircare.com/COMPARATIVE...FRIGERANTS.pdf

                    http://www.befreetech.com/envirosafe.htm

                    http://www.oztechnologyinc.com/

                    temp and pressure charts and other found below

                    http://www.redtek.com/techinfo_refprop.html#


                    EPA's view point
                    http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/refrigerants/hc-12a.html

                    the basic loop hole is in section 612,



                    the complete article is an interesting article if one wants to read it http://ces.iisc.ernet.in/hpg/envis/fredoc105.html

                    even tho it is a very good refrigerant and has many beneficial properties for the environment and your pocket book, the use of it is at best a bending of the EPA's rulings unless special considerations are met,


                    hey WOW lots of research went into this and I want to give a sincere thx to that! Not to many people out there would have gone to great lengths to provide this much information to someone!

                    Again thx very much!!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: RED TECK 12a

                      A word of caution; you should have a warning posting stuff like that. I can see some moron who thinks they have a low charge, grab the propane tank from the grill then make some type of adapter fitting to charge his unit. That can't be good.
                      the product that is sold is a very purified product that is de moisturized and is manufactured under controlled conditions, to keep purity at a very high point.

                      What is sold as fuel is not pure it is a blend of many items and may be many blends of propane butane's and other hydrocarbons, there is moisture in much of it, that would not be beneficial for a refrigeration system, and do to the unknown nature of what the tank of propane blends contain, and what pressures would be created, using off the shelf fuel would not be wise.

                      When our local Propane supplier gets a new tank he adds a few gallons of ethanol to the bottom of the tank to hold the moisture that may be present in the blend, (the purpose is to protect the tank not the fuel).

                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                      propane in low percentages in concentration as of little of as 2 percent can be very explosive. see chart below and some related hydrocarbons of as little as 1.8%

                      first number is lower % second it the upper %
                      Fuel Gas "Lower Explosive or Flammable Limit"(LEL/LFL)(%)
                      "Upper Explosive or Flammable Limit"(UEL/UFL)(%)
                      Acetaldehyde 4 60
                      Acetone 2.6 12.8
                      Acetylene 2.2 85
                      Ammonia 15 28
                      Arsine 5.1 78
                      Benzene 1.3 7.1
                      Butane 1.8 8.4
                      Butylene 1.98 9.65
                      Carbon Disulfide 1.3 50
                      Carbon Monoxide 12 75
                      Cyclohexane 1.3 8
                      Cyclopropane 2.4 10.4
                      Diethyl Ether 1.9 36
                      Ethane 3 12.4
                      Ethylene 2.7 36
                      Ethyl Alcohol 3.3 19
                      Ethyl Chloride 3.8 15.4
                      Fuel Oil No.1 0.7 5
                      Hydrogen 4 75
                      Isobutane 1.8 9.6
                      Isobutene 1.8 9
                      Isooctane 0.79 5.94
                      Isopentane 1.32 9.16
                      Isopropyl Alcohol 2 12
                      Gasoline 1.4 7.6
                      Kerosine 0.7 5
                      Methane 5 15
                      Methyl Alcohol 6.7 36
                      Methyl Chloride 10.7 17.4
                      Methyl Ethyl Ketone 1.8 10
                      Naphthalene 0.9 5.9
                      n-Heptane 1.05 6.7
                      n-Hexane 1.1 7.5
                      n-Pentene 1.65 7.7
                      Neopentane 1.38 7.22
                      Neohexane 1.19 7.58
                      Pentane 1.5 7.8
                      Propane 2.1 10.1
                      Propylene 2.0 11.1
                      Silane 1.5 98
                      Styrene 1.1 6.1
                      Toluene 1.2 7.1
                      Triptane 1.08 6.69
                      p-Xylene 1.1 7.0

                      Note! The limits are for gas, air and oxygen at 20oC and atmospheric pressure. http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/ex...its-d_423.html

                      Propane Limits of Flammability - The lower and upper limits of flammability are the percentages of propane that must be present in an propane/air mixture. This means that between 2.15 and 9.6% of the total propane/air mixture must be propane in order for it to be combustible. If the mixture is 2% propane and 98% air, there will not be combustion. If the mixture 10% propane and 90% air, combustion will not occur. Any percentage of propane in a propane/air mixture between 2.15% and 9.6% will be sufficient for propane to burn. http://www.propane101.com/aboutpropane.htm

                      so if a leak in a refrigeration system (using a hydrocarbon refrigerant) in a confined space occurred the potential of hazard could be explosive.
                      Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                      "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
                      attributed to Samuel Johnson
                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                      PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

                      Comment

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