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  • #76
    Re: My boiler is short cycling

    Finally we've got somewhere. This here is a classic symptom of a boiler that is over fired. The fact that the radiators heat evenly (even though the M bedroom bangs a bit) means the radiators are indeed venting. (so is the main since if the main was'nt, neither would the radiators.) Changing the cph and or adjusting the pressure trol can slightly decrease the cycling but the main problem here is that the boiler is making steam at a rate faster than the systems ability to direct it. I would give your service Co a call and see if the change the firing rate for you.[/quote]

    Here is the o.p.'s first post:

    ************************************************** *****

    I have a Weil-McLain EG gas boiler that provides steam heat. I bought the house last August. Started to turn on the heat probably in late Oct or early Nov. I would leave the thermostat at 68 degree all day because my grandmom is in the house. I don't remember the boiler would ever short cycling like now. It would fire up for 3 minutes every 15-18 minutes but there is no heat to the radiators. If I push the thermostat up 69 or 70, then I can feel the heat is coming out from the radiators. Or if I let the room temperature drop to 66-67 and then set the thermostat to 68, then I can feel the heat coming out from the radiators.


    ************************************************** *******
    Notice in the 1st paragraph he states:

    "I dont remember the boiler short cycling like now. It would fire up for 3 minutes every 15-18 minutes but there is no heat to the radiators"

    Did the boiler all of a sudden become overfired?
    This is the classic symptom of an airbound steam system.
    Last edited by Masterplumb; 03-26-2008, 11:24 PM.

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    • #77
      Re: My boiler is short cycling

      Well, hell, I don't know. I've pretty much run through all the possibilities in my mind. Air bound seems ok except the radiators do heat up if he cranks the stat up,? I still think replacing the main and rad vents is always a good idea but I'm not sure that's the prob. I shot a mail off to Dan H. If anyone knows it's gonna be him but I fear the info is just too limited. Hell, you're in NY, stop in a give her a look see.. Ha. I think you can down fire the boiler by changing orifice size, but then If I have read this right the boiler will run for 15 to 20 minuts untill she makes steam and then the short cycling starts. That makes me think of three things. Bad pressure switch (rare as hell but possible) Main vents totally plugged (but he say's there are none) Boiler over fired. (can't tell without counting and sizing rads) and finally the LWCO if F'd up. Ok so thats four and just for grins I'll another, boiler is surging badly (but I think he said it is'nt) I'm too lazy to read that far back. Lets just rip the f-ing thing out and convert to FHW.
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      • #78
        Re: My boiler is short cycling

        I will ask the question again since I don't think I got a clear answer. General speaking in a steam system, if I set the thermostat very high or cross the 2 wires to fire up the boiler, will it stay fire on continueously, no cycle on and off, until it reach its' set point? Is that the normal operation?

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        • #79
          Re: My boiler is short cycling

          No it's not normal and it leads me to think perhaps the pressuretrol is either set all wrong. I.E. differential is set too close. or the thermostat anticipator is set wrong.
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          • #80
            Re: My boiler is short cycling

            Originally posted by zuffy View Post
            I will ask the question again since I don't think I got a clear answer. General speaking in a steam system, if I set the thermostat very high or cross the 2 wires to fire up the boiler, will it stay fire on continueously, no cycle on and off, until it reach its' set point? Is that the normal operation?

            Since you havent got a "clear answer" it may be time to call in a pro this way your system is all set to go next year before the cold weather comes.

            Your boiler should run until the t-stat is satisfied, but the burner will cycle as the pressure rises and falls according to the pressuretrol.

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            • #81
              Re: My boiler is short cycling

              Originally posted by Masterplumb View Post
              Since you havent got a "clear answer" it may be time to call in a pro this way your system is all set to go next year before the cold weather comes.

              Your boiler should run until the t-stat is satisfied, but the burner will cycle as the pressure rises and falls according to the pressuretrol.
              Isn't that what my boiler is doing now? If I set the thermostat to 80, the boiler is fire on continueously for 15-20 minutes. Once it hit the 3 psi, it cool off for a minute and fire up again. This process repeat several times until it reaches my thermostat set point of 80.

              I have no problem calling a pro to resolve my problem but I don't know of a trusty one. For example, my next door neighbor is a master plumber. Most likely, he's the one that installed this boiler when the previous owner was living here. He replaced my water heater back in Nov/Dec because it was leaking. I asked him about my water hammer issue and he kind of blew me off. Similiar with the WH, seem like he didn't want the job. I wasn't trying to get free work, discount or take away from his work schedule. I was paying him his rate and I would have no problem paying him if he wanted to look into my heating issue. Maybe it's the neighbor thing where he think I will bother him a lot.

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              • #82
                Re: My boiler is short cycling

                Originally posted by zuffy View Post
                Can I assume I don't seem to have a problem anymore? The air vents in the bathroom and master room are not hissing loudy anymore after the cleaning. Since changing the cph from the default 6 to 3 and then to 1 which is the correct setting for my steam system, the boiler have not been short cycling. The last time the boiler came on around 11:12am, it just came on at 3:23pm and stop at 3:43pm. The thermostat did not call for more heat.
                Are you still having the problem or did changing the cph fix it.?
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                • #83
                  Re: My boiler is short cycling

                  Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                  Are you still having the problem or did changing the cph fix it.?
                  Since the cph change from 6 to 1, it's not short cycling like in my original post. Before, when the boiler reach the set point temp at the tstat, the boiler then would fire for 3 minutes every 15-18 minutes but no heat at the radiators. Only when I push the temp up at the tstat, then the boiler would fire for longer and get heat at the radiators. This process would repeat until I push the tstat to another high, like someone on drugs, needing more doses to get high.

                  Now, if I set the thermostat to 80, the boiler would fire on continueously for 15-20 minutes. Once it hit the 3 psi, it cool off for a minute and fire up again. This process repeat several times until it reaches my thermostat set point of 80 because the thermostat was still calling for heat. Obviously, the repeat process is zero or minimum if I am only raising the temp 1-2 degrees. So, really, is this normal?

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                  • #84
                    Re: My boiler is short cycling

                    Where is the thermostat in relation to the nearest radiator?

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                    • #85
                      Re: My boiler is short cycling

                      The living is approx. 18' x 25' so I would say it's about 23-24' away. Radiator is at the front of the house and there is a small one in the door entrance, about 4' away. There are no radiator at the kitchen.



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                      • #86
                        Re: My boiler is short cycling

                        If you haven't had a good HVAC tech come by and check it out yet, please just do so. This thread is insane. All anyone can do remotely is to try to make good guesses based on what's posted. A good tech could get more done in an hour or two than what's on this thread of over 80 posts. In addition you have safety issues that need to be checked out and fixed right. Please do yourself and your family the favor of getting this fixed and fixed right. No more "Penny Wise and Dollar Foolish" nonsense. Sooner or later something bad is going to happen. Get a good tech or two to come by and check it over and then advise you. You're not being forced to do as they say and spend huge amounts of money. If more than one says you need the same things fixed, then please just do it. If they disagree then ask questions and maybe get a third in the check it over.

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                        • #87
                          Re: My boiler is short cycling

                          I am not aware of any safety issue other than the relief value which was resolved long before I started this thread.

                          There are just too many HVAC techs in NYC to know which one is good. As I stated before, I have a master plumber next door, whom license # is in the low hundreds, that doesn't seem to want to help. Maybe it's neighborphobia. That is my problem unless someone can refer one.

                          I still don't understand why someone can tell me a simple yes or no if that is how a normal steam boiler suppose to work. Is it a liability issue?

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                          • #88
                            Re: My boiler is short cycling

                            I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that based on your last couple of posts, yes it is operating a near correctly as it can. would I like to see the cycle time longer.? Yes I would, but I suspect there's a bit more boiler there than the piping and radiators can handle. Can you down fire the boiler,? You're gonna have to get a gas tech out there to determine and take care of that issue. I believe it is as simple as changing the orifices in the burners but there is NO WAY a home owner should attempt that.
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                            • #89
                              Re: My boiler is short cycling

                              Originally posted by Woussko View Post
                              If you haven't had a good HVAC tech come by and check it out yet, please just do so. This thread is insane. All anyone can do remotely is to try to make good guesses based on what's posted. A good tech could get more done in an hour or two than what's on this thread of over 80 posts. In addition you have safety issues that need to be checked out and fixed right. Please do yourself and your family the favor of getting this fixed and fixed right. No more "Penny Wise and Dollar Foolish" nonsense. Sooner or later something bad is going to happen. Get a good tech or two to come by and check it over and then advise you. You're not being forced to do as they say and spend huge amounts of money. If more than one says you need the same things fixed, then please just do it. If they disagree then ask questions and maybe get a third in the check it over.
                              come on wussy. I love these long threads they really hold your attention. Let's go up a couple and fight over flat rate pricing. That one's been going on for months
                              sigpic

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                              • #90
                                Re: My boiler is short cycling

                                Thank you. And I am not that crazy to attempt that. I know what my limitation is and use common sense.

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