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  • #46
    Re: Steam Piping

    i dont understand why there is a ck valve and circ pump on a steam leg????--am i missing something????looks more like hot water than steam

    and we have many steamers here---i like steam boilers--its interesting to me

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    • #47
      Re: Steam Piping

      It is possible to pull a hydronic loop from the bottom of the steam boiler, below the water line.
      sigpic

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      • #48
        Re: Steam Piping

        Another tip off that this system is probably not setam is the 15lb pressure which would be quite high for atmospheric steam but is the normal operating pressure for a forced hot water boiler.
        sigpic

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        • #49
          Re: Steam Piping

          never seen a hot loop off steam boiler---is that common by you???

          does sound like hot water------

          so what is it glk???????????????

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Steam Piping

            Originally posted by Masterplumb View Post
            Are you sure it's running on 15 psi or is that the max.
            Not sure what operating pressure is, as system has been down all summer. 15psi max

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: Steam Piping

              Originally posted by plumberjr View Post
              never seen a hot loop off steam boiler---is that common by you???

              does sound like hot water------

              so what is it glk???????????????
              We do it all the time around here.

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: Steam Piping

                The photos are in the basement level of a 3 story library. There are 5 boilers for heat in the mechanical room, be it steam or hot water. 2 boilers for domestic hot water (more repairs need to be done on that part of the system. Havn't seen the whole campus/chapel yet so I don't know just how big the system is. If I get all/portion of the job I'll post pics of the mechanical room.

                Greg

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                • #53
                  Re: Steam Piping

                  This thread started with 3 Qs from Greg:
                  1. Is a DWV wye a code approved material for steam heat?
                  2. Could the 3" wye be changed to a tee?
                  3. How important is the directional fitting on a steam system?
                  Have we answered any of them yet? It seems that everyone (including me) is now focused on the layout of the piping and debating if this is a HW or Steam or some sort of hybrid system. Thread creep someone (was that you DB) named it a few days ago in another thread. We could certainly answer that if we saw the boiler; the presence of a low water cutoff, a gauge glass, and a Hartford loop on the boiler would indicate a steam (or converted from steam) system.

                  Whoever injected the union/non-union debate into this it has no bearing on the topic, let it go or start your own thread.

                  Copper pipe and tube conforming to ASTM standards B42 & B75 respectively (and other Stds) are acceptable for hydronic systems as long as the material and joining methods are rated for the pressures, temperatures, and fluid used.

                  Copper fittings conforming to various section of B16 are acceptable.

                  This is all in the IMC. Acceptable methods of joining piping are also in the IMC. Look it up. If you don't have a copy, get one.

                  I see no reason for the Wye except to keep the line as high as possible and clear the supply line. A tee looking down with even a 3" slip 90 would result in the line being lower by an inch or two I think. If they didn't have a slip 90 then it would be even lower by a couple more inches. Given the location it doesn't seem like it would be an issue, but maybe it was. Difficult to tell from the limited field of view on the photos.
                  "When we build let us think we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone. Let it be such work that our descendants will thank us for, and let us think, as we lay stone upon stone, that a time is to come when these stones will be held sacred because our hands have touched them, and that men will say, as they look upon the labor and wrought substance of them, "See! This our fathers did for us."
                  John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Steam Piping

                    Whoever injected the union/non-union debate into this it has no bearing on the topic, let it go or start your own thread.

                    i was responding to what i thought was a low blow to non union guys---

                    so----

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: Steam Piping

                      Originally posted by plumberjr View Post
                      Whoever injected the union/non-union debate into this it has no bearing on the topic, let it go or start your own thread.

                      i was responding to what i thought was a low blow to non union guys---

                      so----

                      Which it was but then it started to take on a life of its own which was not related to the OP.
                      "When we build let us think we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone. Let it be such work that our descendants will thank us for, and let us think, as we lay stone upon stone, that a time is to come when these stones will be held sacred because our hands have touched them, and that men will say, as they look upon the labor and wrought substance of them, "See! This our fathers did for us."
                      John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Steam Piping

                        Originally posted by Bob D. View Post
                        Which it was but then it started to take on a life of its own which was not related to the OP.
                        With all due respect Bob.I thought it had run it's course.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: Steam Piping

                          Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
                          With all due respect Bob.I thought it had run it's course.
                          Yeah it kinda did. I wasn't trying to dig it up again I was just commenting that I thought it was getting off track and not related to the problem.
                          "When we build let us think we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone. Let it be such work that our descendants will thank us for, and let us think, as we lay stone upon stone, that a time is to come when these stones will be held sacred because our hands have touched them, and that men will say, as they look upon the labor and wrought substance of them, "See! This our fathers did for us."
                          John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: Steam Piping

                            I'm pretty sure I answered all three questions earlier but here goes again.

                            1 - Neither steam nor forced hot water heat care about fitting direction so wye's are never used.

                            2 - Drainage fittings are not code so the wye should go and be replaced with a pressure fitting Tee.
                            (this also explains why a wye can't be used, because you can't buy a wye in a pressure fitting)

                            3 - Type L copper us the norm though there is no code specifying it. You could use type M also. Neither is there any code that addresses the solder used though most use 95\5 for steam piping.

                            4 - The circulator pictured is a Bell&Gosset BG100, it is designed for hydronic heat and is a circulating pump. Unlike a steam condensate pump it is designed to circulate water under pressure (like your water pump in your car) It is not designed to nor will it pump steam condensate.

                            That should pretty much sum up the discussion except for the water loop off the steam boiler thing which is very very common indeed. More knowledge can be gained by logging on to www.heatinghelp.com
                            sigpic

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: Steam Piping

                              Originally posted by plumberjr View Post
                              never seen a hot loop off steam boiler---is that common by you???

                              does sound like hot water------

                              so what is it glk???????????????
                              Yup, for exchangers for radiant heat or indirect water heaters.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: Steam Piping

                                Originally posted by Bob D. View Post
                                This thread started with 3 Qs from Greg:
                                1. Is a DWV wye a code approved material for steam heat?
                                2. Could the 3" wye be changed to a tee?
                                3. How important is the directional fitting on a steam system?
                                Have we answered any of them yet? It seems that everyone (including me) is now focused on the layout of the piping and debating if this is a HW or Steam or some sort of hybrid system. Thread creep someone (was that you DB) named it a few days ago in another thread. We could certainly answer that if we saw the boiler; the presence of a low water cutoff, a gauge glass, and a Hartford loop on the boiler would indicate a steam (or converted from steam) system.

                                Whoever injected the union/non-union debate into this it has no bearing on the topic, let it go or start your own thread.

                                Copper pipe and tube conforming to ASTM standards B42 & B75 respectively (and other Stds) are acceptable for hydronic systems as long as the material and joining methods are rated for the pressures, temperatures, and fluid used.

                                Copper fittings conforming to various section of B16 are acceptable.

                                This is all in the IMC. Acceptable methods of joining piping are also in the IMC. Look it up. If you don't have a copy, get one.

                                I see no reason for the Wye except to keep the line as high as possible and clear the supply line. A tee looking down with even a 3" slip 90 would result in the line being lower by an inch or two I think. If they didn't have a slip 90 then it would be even lower by a couple more inches. Given the location it doesn't seem like it would be an issue, but maybe it was. Difficult to tell from the limited field of view on the photos.
                                I would make the point that if GL is bidding this job, steam vs hydronic makes a big difference as far as time on the job is concerned.

                                Unless he writes it up to have maintanance drain it all and have it waiting for him when he gets there.

                                As for the union vs non-union topic...thats a sad topic.

                                We should ALL be a brotherhood, unfortunately we seem more divided and fueding than working together protecting the trade and health of the public as we once did.

                                Comment

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