Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Hydronic Baseboard Heat

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #76
    Re: Hydronic Baseboard Heat

    Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
    Guys, MP...I'm sorry...laws of physics dictates that a warm mass next to a cold mass will transfer it's heat via convection or conduction....as well as radiation.
    This is why water freezes in your freezer, this is why a rock under your crawlspace isn't 32 degree's in mid july despite no direct contact with sunlight.

    Baseboard & radiant heat will heat the air that comes in contact with it, radiant does it through indirect contact through the floor, radiation is ONLY one form of heat transfer that occurs.

    This is completely evident when you put your hand over a radiator, less evident on radiant as it isn't as hot, but trust me...the air is heated.
    Stop lumping baseboard and radiant as one. They are NOT.

    Ok. I guess I am wrong then duck. When you get a chance look into how and why in-floor hydronic radiant heat works.

    Comment


    • #77
      Re: Hydronic Baseboard Heat

      This is neverendingly interesting to me. I don't dispute MP OR Duck. Just trying to get a full picture of the science. Let's say for the moment I'm willing to accept totally that hydronic systems heat objects and not air through the radiation.

      But now just forget that for a moment and think of air. How do you measure the air temperature accurately?

      J.C.

      Comment


      • #78
        Re: Hydronic Baseboard Heat

        Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
        This is neverendingly interesting to me. I don't dispute MP OR Duck. Just trying to get a full picture of the science. Let's say for the moment I'm willing to accept totally that hydronic systems heat objects and not air through the radiation.

        But now just forget that for a moment and think of air. How do you measure the air temperature accurately?

        J.C.
        Hydronic baseboard and radiators heat by conduction/convection

        Radiant systems heat through radiation. There is a difference

        Comment


        • #79
          Re: Hydronic Baseboard Heat

          Originally posted by Masterplumb View Post
          Hydronic baseboard and radiators heat by conduction/convection

          Radiant systems heat through radiation. There is a difference
          Thanks, that is what I meant. How do you accurately measure air temperature in a radiant system's dwelling?

          And let's get crazy. Can there be radiant cooling?

          J.C.
          Last edited by BobsPlumbing; 09-25-2008, 11:15 PM.

          Comment


          • #80
            Re: Hydronic Baseboard Heat

            Originally posted by Masterplumb View Post
            Stop lumping baseboard and radiant as one. They are NOT.

            Ok. I guess I am wrong then duck. When you get a chance look into how and why in-floor hydronic radiant heat works.
            I don't say radiant doesn't transfer heat through radiation, thats why foil is laid below it.

            But it also heats the floor, which in turn heats the air above it.

            Radiators and baseboard also heat via radiation as well as convection...just put your hand a few inches to the side of one and you feel it, put your hand above and you feel the convection as warm air passes.

            Comment


            • #81
              Re: Hydronic Baseboard Heat

              Open the door of a home thats heated with radiant on a february, feel the warm air come through the door.

              Is that air warm?
              How did it get that way?

              Comment


              • #82
                Re: Hydronic Baseboard Heat

                something to think about.

                i seem to remember the romans being the first to use a central heating system.

                the stone structure had a crawl space which was actually a huge fire place. apparently the fire was built and the hot smoke would travel though flue passages in the walls and exit through the roof.

                more useless information brought to you by Vince the plumber.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Re: Hydronic Baseboard Heat

                  Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                  Open the door of a home thats heated with radiant on a february, feel the warm air come through the door.

                  Is that air warm?
                  How did it get that way?
                  What you are feeling is the heat "leaving your body". Hot goes to cold...Always.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Re: Hydronic Baseboard Heat

                    Originally posted by Masterplumb View Post
                    What you are feeling is the heat "leaving your body". Hot goes to cold...Always.
                    I'm talking about the rush of warm air you feel as you open the door.

                    I don't think even you will try to convince me that the air inside a radiant home is 20 degree's in the winter.

                    The "hot goes to cold" statement is exactly what I'm talking about...warm floors will warm the air above.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Re: Hydronic Baseboard Heat

                      Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                      I'm talking about the rush of warm air you feel as you open the door.

                      I don't think even you will try to convince me that the air inside a radiant home is 20 degree's in the winter.

                      The "hot goes to cold" statement is exactly what I'm talking about...warm floors will warm the air above.
                      We are going 'round and 'round. I will agree to disagree.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Re: Hydronic Baseboard Heat

                        Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                        Thanks, that is what I meant. How do you accurately measure air temperature in a radiant system's dwelling?

                        And let's get crazy. Can there be radiant cooling?

                        J.C.
                        MP-Can you answer please? Does radiant heat objects then the objects heat the air?

                        J.C.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Re: Hydronic Baseboard Heat

                          Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                          MP-Can you answer please? Does radiant heat objects then the objects heat the air?

                          J.C.
                          My thought is that the radiation is more likely to hit the molecules and excite the electrons in the solids than air which is a gas, because they are more densely packed. Thus, they would more efficiently transfer the heat to the objects than the air.

                          I would say that I should have paid more attention to physics than the girl in my class, but the girl became my wife; so I'm happy with the trade-off.

                          Edit: Also it is really an oversimplification to think that things are done only with radiation, or only with convection, or only with conduction. Unfortunately, real systems are complicated. That is why on physics tests; even a Ph.D. level one there are the magic words "ignore edge effects" or other simplifying assumptions.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Re: Hydronic Baseboard Heat

                            I feel like Im a presidential candidate and someone someone is trying to play gotcha.

                            If you are really curious at finding the answer JC, I think you should google "The phenomenom known as cold 70". The internet should have way more info then what I could give you.

                            It doesn't really matter if the air is indirectly heated or not, with radiant heat the floors heat objects in the room period. Theres nothing more to that and if anyone can show me proof in any book that shows something different Id like to see it. I have been installing radiant heat for almost 20 years.

                            So again with hydronic radiant heat its not about heating the air its about heating objects and wheather the air gets heated or not is irrelevant.
                            Last edited by Masterplumb; 09-27-2008, 06:57 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Re: Hydronic Baseboard Heat

                              I've done a few radiant cooling installations to date. You just gotta have proper humidity controls so the floor or wall or celing (depending on where you put your radiant panels) and you also need to flow a lot of water. Either use a chiller or put your water to water or air to water heat pump in cooling mode.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Re: Hydronic Baseboard Heat

                                Originally posted by Masterplumb View Post
                                I feel like Im a presidential candidate and someone someone is trying to play gotcha.

                                If you are really curious at finding the answer JC, I think you should google "The phenomenom known as cold 70". The internet should have way more info then what I could give you.

                                It doesn't really matter if the air is indirectly heated or not, with radiant heat the floors heat objects in the room period. Theres nothing more to that and if anyone can show me proof in any book that shows something different Id like to see it. I have been installing radiant heat for almost 20 years.

                                So again with hydronic radiant heat its not about heating the air its about heating objects and wheather the air gets heated or not is irrelevant.
                                Not playing gotcha' at all. Some will. Was just trying to understand what you understand. I'll get my Google on and then play gotcha'.

                                J.C.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X