Announcement

Announcement Module
Collapse
No announcement yet.

Maytag HVAC ?

Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse
X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Maytag HVAC ?

    Hi all. Hope a few of you can us help out here. We recently had a Maytag 1200 series heat pump installed in our home and have a few questions about it. I ask here because we feel we have been led down the garden path of "oh thats the way its done" by our installer.

    To start, the outside unit has been placed on two small concrete patio stones proping up the plastic pad the unit came with and sits atop of. I have looked at alot of other units online and they all appear to be on solid conrete pads and or both. I will try and upload a picture (See attachment) of ours to show what I am talking about. Would the air gap between the ground and the plastic pad cause the unit to be noisier than if it was on a solid pad?

    Ducting question. The house already has 5 inch ducts through out. The installer quoted in writing that they would "adapt and add 6 new heat runs, plus change some 5" runs to 6" runs " The way we understood this was that any of the new runs would automatically be 6" diameter. What was actually done was only one existing run was converted to 6" and the rest were all 5". The installer told us at the time of the quote that the reason for 6" to be installed was better air circ and noise levels. Well.. its noisy alright and here we are with 5" ducts..Argh!! How much differance can we expect to hear if we change the 5's to 6's. The installer is not allowed back as they made such a huge mess of our house.. butchers is an understatement. in anycase.. is it worth paying someone else to come it and redo the runs with 6" diameter ducts? I have to to turn up the TV every trime the system turns on dag nabbit.

    Thanks for much for any adivse you can give RonD
    Attached Files

  • #2
    Re: Maytag HVAC ?

    Hi it looks like your installer did not want to level the ground. A heat pump should also be up 8 to 12 inches off the ground if you get alot of snow. Also when we give a quote on a job we do a load calculation thus this will give us a proper size unit amount of cfm needed for each room and by that we can determine the size of duct needed. Condo's are netorios for having improperly sized duct or pinched off duct. (MASS PRODUCTOIN SPEC JOBS LOWEST BID GETS IT DURING THE CONSTRUCTION PHAZE)

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Maytag HVAC ?

      Also looks like maby you got r410a aka puron system did they replace the refrigerant pipes or flush the system

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Maytag HVAC ?

        Originally posted by RonD View Post
        Hi all. Hope a few of you can us help out here. We recently had a Maytag 1200 series heat pump installed in our home and have a few questions about it. I ask here because we feel we have been led down the garden path of "oh thats the way its done" by our installer.

        To start, the outside unit has been placed on two small concrete patio stones proping up the plastic pad the unit came with and sits atop of. I have looked at alot of other units online and they all appear to be on solid conrete pads and or both. I will try and upload a picture (See attachment) of ours to show what I am talking about. Would the air gap between the ground and the plastic pad cause the unit to be noisier than if it was on a solid pad?

        Ducting question. The house already has 5 inch ducts through out. The installer quoted in writing that they would "adapt and add 6 new heat runs, plus change some 5" runs to 6" runs " The way we understood this was that any of the new runs would automatically be 6" diameter. What was actually done was only one existing run was converted to 6" and the rest were all 5". The installer told us at the time of the quote that the reason for 6" to be installed was better air circ and noise levels. Well.. its noisy alright and here we are with 5" ducts..Argh!! How much differance can we expect to hear if we change the 5's to 6's. The installer is not allowed back as they made such a huge mess of our house.. butchers is an understatement. in anycase.. is it worth paying someone else to come it and redo the runs with 6" diameter ducts? I have to to turn up the TV every trime the system turns on dag nabbit.

        Thanks for much for any adivse you can give RonD
        The first step in resolving a problem like this is to use the building permitting system to your advantage. I am not familiar with the codes and regs in BC, but it is likely a permit is required. A permit would most likely resolve the condensing unit pad problem and if the contractor was willing to install the pad in such a manner, then the likelihood is that there are other mechanical and electrical code violations that you don't yet know about.

        In California, it is unlawful to replace an HVAC system without a permit. Hopefully, BC has similar laws.

        It appears the pad is a manufactured type. Leverage is usually found in the installation instructions for most HVAC related products. It is very unlikely that the installation complies with the manufacturer's installation instruction. In 2001 I made a general contractor rebuild my master bathroom by pulling out the installation instructions for a bathtub.

        I assume this is a forced air system. It is very unusual to see multiple 5" duct runs in a forced air duct system. Furnace installation instructions could be helpful here. The instructions will not tell you how to design the duct system, but it will tell you to couple the furnace with a duct system that fits within a certain design criteria (related to maximum pressure loss). This puts responsibility of the duct system on the installing contractor.

        As compared to a 6" duct at a particular volume, a 5" duct with the same air volume will increase air noise and decrease air volume.

        A noisy duct system is an undersized duct system - make them fix it but don't be surprised if a duct size much larger than 6" is required.

        Maytag is the most expensive brand in the market and they aim to position themselves as the premier residential HVAC brand. The equipment is actually manufactured by Snyder General. I suspect that if you found the right representative at Maytag they could be helpful in resolution of the problem.

        ToUtahNow may be able to chime in on this, but it is my understanding that contractors in most jurisdictions have a legal responsibility to perform work in a manner that is consistent with an adequate "standard of care" for the industry that they serve. This again can be used as leverage because by installing a furnace on an existing duct system, the contractor is ultimately (theoretically) responsible for insuring that the duct system is adequate for the furnace... even if it already existed.

        My experience has been that if a contractor is willing to substantially ignore the rules and regulations that they are bound by, then they will usually be too ignorant to correct a bad installation on their own, or have no intention of correcting bad their work from the very beginning. There are exceptions however.

        I would ask the contractor to pull a permit and if they are willing to do so, then dog every thing they do to your satisfaction. If you need to, hire another HVAC company to monitor their work.

        If they are unresponsive, then I would collect as much information as I could by getting multiple proposals from other contractors. Then, armed with that information demand your money back and have them remove the equipment. Which they will probably do in order to avoid complications with their governing agency as well as their reputation.

        Then install a new system by NOT accepting the lowest price and looking instead for the best value from a reputable contractor that is insured, pulls permits and has references.

        Some, none, or all of my comments may be applicable as you are located in BC and not in California.
        spodelee

        Until lions have their own storytellers, stories of the hunt shall always glorify the hunter

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Maytag HVAC ?

          Originally posted by spodelee View Post
          if the contractor was willing to install the pad in such a manner, then the likelihood is that there are other mechanical and electrical code violations that you don't yet know about.
          I think this pretty much sums it up! The only other words I could add would be: Hack, hackery, hacknician and hackjob.

          I thought Maytag was a Nordyne product. It sure looks like a Frigidaire/Gibson.

          If you can tell us what size the system is and how many 5 and 6" runs you have, and an approximation of the return grille sizes we can tell you if the duct system is drastically undersized.

          Andy

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Maytag HVAC ?

            Originally posted by Ruudacguy View Post
            I think this pretty much sums it up! The only other words I could add would be: Hack, hackery, hacknician and hackjob.

            I thought Maytag was a Nordyne product. It sure looks like a Frigidaire/Gibson.

            If you can tell us what size the system is and how many 5 and 6" runs you have, and an approximation of the return grille sizes we can tell you if the duct system is drastically undersized.

            Andy
            They are all Nordyne products.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Maytag HVAC ?

              Originally posted by spodelee View Post
              Maytag is the most expensive brand in the market and they aim to position themselves as the premier residential HVAC brand. The equipment is actually manufactured by Snyder General. I suspect that if you found the right representative at Maytag they could be helpful in resolution of the problem.
              My bad - Maytag is made by Nordyne, not Snyder General
              spodelee

              Until lions have their own storytellers, stories of the hunt shall always glorify the hunter

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Maytag HVAC ?

                WOW!!! I'm lovin' the excess stat wire at the outdoor unit. Must be there for the dog to chew on or for the weed eater to nibble on. What - no pump-ups. There should at least be something between the unit and the pad. Some bricks, Campbell's soup cans, spare tire...something to let the defrost water out of the bottom of the pan. Sorry you got such a half-*** job.
                Later, Jonesy

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Maytag HVAC ?

                  Originally posted by RonD View Post
                  Hi all. Hope a few of you can us help out here. We recently had a Maytag 1200 series heat pump installed in our home and have a few questions about it. I ask here because we feel we have been led down the garden path of "oh thats the way its done" by our installer.

                  To start, the outside unit has been placed on two small concrete patio stones proping up the plastic pad the unit came with and sits atop of. I have looked at alot of other units online and they all appear to be on solid conrete pads and or both. I will try and upload a picture (See attachment) of ours to show what I am talking about. Would the air gap between the ground and the plastic pad cause the unit to be noisier than if it was on a solid pad?

                  Ducting question. The house already has 5 inch ducts through out. The installer quoted in writing that they would "adapt and add 6 new heat runs, plus change some 5" runs to 6" runs " The way we understood this was that any of the new runs would automatically be 6" diameter. What was actually done was only one existing run was converted to 6" and the rest were all 5". The installer told us at the time of the quote that the reason for 6" to be installed was better air circ and noise levels. Well.. its noisy alright and here we are with 5" ducts..Argh!! How much differance can we expect to hear if we change the 5's to 6's. The installer is not allowed back as they made such a huge mess of our house.. butchers is an understatement. in anycase.. is it worth paying someone else to come it and redo the runs with 6" diameter ducts? I have to to turn up the TV every trime the system turns on dag nabbit.

                  Thanks for much for any adivse you can give RonD
                  great article. I will bookmark this
                  soapstone

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Maytag HVAC ?

                    thanks to every one that has helped out with this thread. we have been in touch with maytag and the distributor that sells the units to the installers.. they are coming later this month to have a look. This should be interesting as anyone can plainly see the mess the installer made and will hopefully have and anwser as to what way to proceed with getting it all fixed.



                    Danimal535@charter.net: All the lines were replaced with new ones. interesting about the 12 inches above ground.. is this a carved in stone rule of thumb or just something you do?



                    spodelee: The pad it sitting on seems to be the norm for most of the pumps I have seen as of late.. but still have a conrete pad under them. I would have gladly poured the pad if I had have known they were going to do this, this way. re the Furnace installation instructions you speak of.. any idea where I would find them.. we got the express tour on how to use the thermostat and that was about it.
                    "My experience has been that if a contractor is willing to substantially ignore the rules and regulations that they are bound by, then they will usually be too ignorant to correct a bad installation on their own, or have no intention of correcting bad their work from the very beginning. There are exceptions however."
                    I couldnt agree with you more in this case.. we got diddly squat in the way we were treated from the BBB as well.. they have no horse power when the business if not 'accredited' with them. I can only wonder how many other people are in the same boat as us with this installer and have no idea that any wrong doing has taken place. just baffled with the balony we got served up. We asked for $1000 back and we would just go away.. this came back with a three page letter on how they could do no wrong and all the things they did do for us.. you know .. build a manifold.. horse shoe.. remove the old furnace, said they removed the old fuel lines that amazingly half of them are still there etc etc etc oh and how they included all new plastic floor grates as well.. at no cost to us, no less. the grates made me feel a whole lot better.. let me tell you.



                    Ruudacguy" the total runs on the system are 18 and the unit is a three ton. return grills size is like 3 feet by 1 foot. there are two upstair and and one smaller one down stairs.




                    JONESY there is .. a couple of patio stones on one end. leafs and good ol fashioned air

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Maytag HVAC ?

                      Thanks for the update Ron. Please let us know how this ends for you.

                      18 5" runs is not drastically undersized for a 3 ton system, but is definately borderline. A 5" run will carry 65cfm @ a tenth of an inch of water column. Assuming the main trunks which supply the 5" runs are sized accordingly, your system can move 1170cfm at .10" w.c. A 3 ton system requires 1200 cfm to perform correctly. I size ductwork in all my new construction to .05 on the return and .07 on the supply just to further reduce air noise. Check to see what speed the blower is set on. If set on high, which could be 1600 or even 2000 cfm, you will definately be getting alot of air noise. The return grille sizes seem to be plenty big enough, but just like the supply trunks, the return trunks need to be sized correctly too.

                      Thanks again for checking back with us and good luck getting this resolved.

                      Andy

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Maytag HVAC ?

                        we got diddly squat in the way we were treated from the BBB as well.. they have no horse power when the business if not 'accredited'
                        You're barking up the wrong tree with the BBB. Go to your state or province contractors licensing board or consumers affairs agency and file a complaint there. You have the contractors name and should have invoice or something printed from him which should have his license number on it. If not don't worry about it, all you need is their name and address.
                        ---------------
                        Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
                        ---------------
                        “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
                        ---------
                        "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
                        ---------
                        sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Maytag HVAC ?

                          We had the product distributor over to look at what was installed and they shook their head when I gave them the tour. Which made us feel better in a way. Better as in it verified that we didnt get what we paid for and what was installed was clearly unacceptable. and most certainly not what Maytag would want to be associated with. I shot a video of what the unit does or at least some of what it does.. It has a whole host of rattles and growns etc. We have high hopes that we can get this sorted out.. the noise thing. The installation nasty's will most likely take us in as legal direction. Its really unfortunate on account of what the distributor said.. they have had very few complaints and most people loved what they got from our installer.. I truely wish we could have been amoung them

                          1:40 into the video you can hear the noise we get to listen to nightly and almost every time the unit shuts down.

                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4f_NXKeQd4

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Maytag HVAC ?

                            Looks pretty bad

                            A few suggestions that may help...

                            - Have the charge pulled from the system and a good vac pulled then recharge.
                            - Verify that the Evaporator coil is sized to the condenser
                            -Verify proper operating pressures (cooling mode). It sounds like the reversing valve is leaking by or you are getting alot of liquid back to the compressor and the scroll liquid bypass is opening...

                            Okie

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Maytag HVAC ?

                              It would not hurt to utilize filter dryers for good measure. There is no telling what was done to that system during the install.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X