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  • Need Replacement Gas Shut Off Value with Side Port for Pilot Light - Photos Available

    We have a house which was built in the 1920's which has an old coal furnace converted to gas with a Norman Conversion Burner.

    The shut off valve has a very, very, tiny gas leak and I want to replace or repair it.

    This valve is not part of the burner itself, the valve is located on the gas pipe supplying gas to the burner.

    There is a separate shut off valve for the pilot screwed into a port on the side of the main valve.

    The main valve is leaking - oh so slightly, you have to get your nose right at the valve to smell it - at the back of the valve.

    There is a spring on the back of the valve which I believe pulls the valve tightly into the seat to seal it.

    Does anyone know where I might get a replacement valve? Remember, it has a side port into which the pilot valve is screwed.

    I located one company, Key Gas Components, that might have one and emailed them about it. Their web site is http://www.keygas.com/index.html

    Short of replacing the value, does anyone know how to disassemble a valve like this to clean it?

    It is almost impossible to fully close the main valve, that's why I think it is dirty or corroded inside. This might be causing the leak.

    You can see photos of this valve at http://novell.home.att.net/furnace.html

    Any assistance will be greatly appreciated.

    Bob

  • #2
    Re: Need Replacement Gas Shut Off Value with Side Port for Pilot Light - Photos Avail

    A gas cock with an 1/8" npt port can be had from just about anywhere. You should have a plumber or HVAC service tech change it out for you. They should also do a c/o check on your furnace while they are there.

    Andy

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Need Replacement Gas Shut Off Value with Side Port for Pilot Light - Photos Avail

      Thanks for the reply.

      I've found one supplier locally that might have a replacement but I won't know until I go there tomorrow and look at it.

      Other suppliers have had no idea what I'm talking about. If the one supplier does not have it, I'm going to make the rounds of the others with photos (I may just take the notebook system and show them the photos I put on that web site).

      There's not a lot to check on this furnace.

      The burner valve and thermocouple pilot safety are very simple. The burner itself is simply a large pipe which goes into the furnace with a 90 degree elbow on the end with vanes that support a hole in the center. The hole is for a rod on a diverter piece. The diverter is an inverted cone shaped piece of steel which diverts the flame out into a circle of about 10"

      The furnace body is okay, no leaks or gaps.

      The chimney has been checked, as has the joint between the furnace exhaust and the chimney.

      We have a CO detector in the basement and one upstairs.

      If I can find a replacement, I'll do the work myself - we have been hammered by the economic situation - we knew it was a recession long before the government started calling it one.

      I do a lot of plumbing work myself and I'm confident I can replace this value and insure there are no leaks.

      Can this type of valve be taken apart and cleaned? I am thinking that the plate the spring bears against is not sitting tightly enough against the valve body.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Need Replacement Gas Shut Off Value with Side Port for Pilot Light - Photos Avail

        That valve is $6 at Menards. I dont care how bad times are, nothing hits harder than c/o poisoning. Technically what you have is a c/o monitor. A detector is something that reads in real time and displays ppm. It doesnt matter how clean the heat exchanger is, c/o is caused by improper combustion. While you may not have c/o in the airstream, you might be dumping 2000ppm in the vent pipe. But you seem to know all this already. No need to listen to a lowly licensed professional.

        Andy

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Need Replacement Gas Shut Off Value with Side Port for Pilot Light - Photos Avail

          Originally posted by Ruudacguy View Post
          That valve is $6 at Menards. I dont care how bad times are, nothing hits harder than c/o poisoning. Technically what you have is a c/o monitor. A detector is something that reads in real time and displays ppm. It doesnt matter how clean the heat exchanger is, c/o is caused by improper combustion. While you may not have c/o in the airstream, you might be dumping 2000ppm in the vent pipe. But you seem to know all this already. No need to listen to a lowly licensed professional.

          Andy
          Rudd Baby, I must respectfully dissagree. Nothing hits harder than your house blowing up And if a fella was to take a moment or two and do a Google search on the number of homes that have gone vertical this year he might be unpleasently surprised.
          sigpic

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Need Replacement Gas Shut Off Value with Side Port for Pilot Light - Photos Avail

            Ruud is right, it will not cost you very much money to have a CO test run and the peace of mind that comes with it. The problem with most CO detectors is that they are not sensitive enough, they do not go off until CO levels are high enough to be of danger. you may want to get it checked.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Need Replacement Gas Shut Off Value with Side Port for Pilot Light - Photos Avail

              Poor choice of words on my part NH. I got a dollar that says more people die or are injured per year from c/o than from leaking natural gas igniting.

              If this guys city allows a homeowner to do his own gas-fitting, then I cant tell him he's wrong for attempting it. We can only discourage it. If someone tells me they are capable of changing out a gas cock, I'll usually believe them. However I can say with the utmost certainty that 99.999 percent of homeowners can not properly detect c/o. Given the age if this thing I think its absolute insanity that this thing is not getting checked yearly. I like to say that the newer furnaces are reduntantly safe. Old ones are reduntantly dangerous.

              Andy

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Need Replacement Gas Shut Off Value with Side Port for Pilot Light - Photos Avail

                Unfortunatly, there's not a damn thing you can do to stop him.
                sigpic

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Need Replacement Gas Shut Off Value with Side Port for Pilot Light - Photos Avail

                  Originally posted by Ruudacguy View Post
                  That valve is $6 at Menards. I dont care how bad times are, nothing hits harder than c/o poisoning. Technically what you have is a c/o monitor. A detector is something that reads in real time and displays ppm. It doesnt matter how clean the heat exchanger is, c/o is caused by improper combustion. While you may not have c/o in the airstream, you might be dumping 2000ppm in the vent pipe. But you seem to know all this already. No need to listen to a lowly licensed professional.

                  Andy
                  Detector or monitor - do a Google search and you'll see them called both things. Name doesn't really seem important. I see monitors with and without digital displays and detectors with and without digital displays

                  If that valve is available at Menards, could you please post the URL of the page from their web site. I can't find it.

                  There is no Menards store near us - the closest is 114 miles from here.

                  As to "listening to a lowly licensed professional" - I'm not disregarding what you are saying, I'm simply stating the facts.

                  This furnace is safe - that does not mean it might not develop problems in the future -but I need to take care of this valve problem.

                  I am going to do it myself for one simple reason - we can't afford anything else.

                  I will use due diligence to do the work safely and will double check all joints for leaks.

                  The alternative is to do nothing at all about the problem.

                  I would sort of expect a licensed professional to provide advice from the experience which they have gained during their career rather than just be negative about it.

                  Either I replace the valve or it sits and perhaps gets worse.

                  There is no feasible alternative.

                  I you want to pay someone to come in and fix this problem for us, we would be most grateful but I know that is totally out of the question.

                  I ask you, please, to either provide information I can use to resolve this problem or to simply bite your tongue and say nothing at all.

                  As to the CO issue - this burner has no adjustments that would effect the efficiency of the burn.

                  This thing is dirt simple. It was created as a way to take a coal furnace from coal to gas in the simplest and cheapest manner.

                  We would love to have someone come in and replace the furnace --- and install all new duct work since the current gravity feed 9" round octopus duct work will not work with a new forced air furnace.

                  The duct work alone would cost thousands of dollars.

                  You'd have to rip everything out, patch all the holes in the wall where the old outlets were installed, run a plenum and duct work, cut into the walls and install outlets and then patch around the outlets and paint the walls -- that's not going to come cheap.

                  Gravity feed outlets are on inside walls and forced air outlets are on outside walls. The existing outlets are also much bigger than forced air outlets.

                  I could do the tear out and patching from the old outlets and installing the new outlets and patching the walls there, but I don't have enough experience, nor the tools, to install all the new duct work.

                  We are going to eventually install (as in DIY) under floor radiant heating. I'll install all the tubing and then have someone else install the rest of the system.

                  But that isn't going to happen for 3 or 4 or maybe even 5 years.

                  We can't afford it - period!

                  So, if you can't help me with this problem, please don't post anything at all.

                  But - if you know that Menards has that valve, could you please give me a web page reference or a part number or a part name which would allow me to order it from them?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Need Replacement Gas Shut Off Value with Side Port for Pilot Light - Photos Avail

                    Boy!

                    You try and get advise and information from those who know more than you and your get raked over the coals.

                    I had this furnace checked for CO last season - OK?

                    There was no leakage into the basement and the amount going up the chimney was okay - according to, as was said, "a lowly licensed professional"

                    Take my word for it - I can install a new valve. I just haven't been able to find one yet.

                    So, sorry to have disturbed you, oh mighty gods of all knowledge, I'll go elsewhere next time I need some help.

                    I really doubt that these replies meet the guidelines for these forums.

                    As I said in another reply - if anyone wants to pay for someone to come in and fix this problem then do so!

                    We are in such financial trouble right now that we are not living paycheck to paycheck, we are living day to day on the tips my wife makes.

                    So excuse me for trying to get information from those who claim to have it, I'll just report this thread to the administrators, ask them to decide if it meets the standards, and ask them to remove my membership from this great site.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Need Replacement Gas Shut Off Value with Side Port for Pilot Light - Photos Avail

                      We can appreciate the gravity of your financial situation. However, what you are asking is for us to provide you with the means to create a situation that could potentially do great harm to you and your family. everyone must make painfull financial decisions from time to time and this is one of those times. It would be ill advised of any of us to facilitate the potential for disaster here. The mere fact that you are so sure that there are no adjustments that can be made to the burner that would effect co levels are enough to convince me that your mechanical knowledge is nowhere near what it needs to be to work on gas equipment. Perhaps you should indeed take your question to another forum, but do not be surprised if you get the same reception.
                      sigpic

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Need Replacement Gas Shut Off Value with Side Port for Pilot Light - Photos Avail

                        Further, I don't think the administrators advocate its members giving out info that could result in dangerous, possibly illegal work being done...I agree that finances are tight everywhere, but you don't see me going to a dental forum and asking for tips on how to remove wisdom teeth. On that note, if you happened to know a good dentist who will trade for plumbing work...
                        West Trail Mechanical Ltd
                        Service. Commitment. Expertise.

                        www.westtrailmechanical.ca

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