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  • #16
    Re: Helping Someone....

    Originally posted by spoon View Post
    If anything, it will be good experience. Can you talk to his air techs?
    Possibly. I have to say that his HVAC guys seemed to have been very honest with them. He has been dissatisfied with the systems performance and called them to do forced air in the floor/crawlspace.

    They owner said he would be glad too and collect the money but thinks he will still not like it as the temp differential is rising to the ceiling & radiant might be better as one can "feel" it.

    And I don't think this HVAC person even really installs radiant though.


    J.C.

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    • #17
      Re: Helping Someone....

      Oh Boy!

      My advice is to follow Mojourneymans advice

      Forego the diffusion plates.

      Buy 3 300' foot rolls of the PEX. Keep it warm before working with it. Yea, they'll be some waste but a 1000' foot roll is just too difficult to work with.

      Someone will undoubtedly come along later and install a boiler in the heaters place so get the O2 barrier.

      3 zone manifold with maximum 300' run on each loop. I don't like to go over 250. Use each loop as a zone if you like. Zone valve heads can be directly mounted to manifold and makes wiring easy. Flow indicators on each loop.

      http://na.rehau.com/construction/hea...anifolds.shtml

      You'll need a high-head/low-flow pump. Taco 009 Stainless or compatible.

      The tank will have to run full tilt (about 140 degrees) so you'll need 2 mixing valves. One 3/4" to temper domestic down to 120 degrees and the other the radiant. Radiant mixing valve should be 1" and temp range of 80-180.

      Start shopping for a new heater because that one won't go three years.

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      • #18
        Re: Helping Someone....

        Originally posted by plumberscrack View Post
        Oh Boy!

        My advice is to follow Mojourneymans advice

        Forego the diffusion plates.

        Buy 3 300' foot rolls of the PEX. Keep it warm before working with it. Yea, they'll be some waste but a 1000' foot roll is just too difficult to work with.

        Someone will undoubtedly come along later and install a boiler in the heaters place so get the O2 barrier.

        3 zone manifold with maximum 300' run on each loop. I don't like to go over 250. Use each loop as a zone if you like. Zone valve heads can be directly mounted to manifold and makes wiring easy. Flow indicators on each loop.

        http://na.rehau.com/construction/hea...anifolds.shtml

        You'll need a high-head/low-flow pump. Taco 009 Stainless or compatible.

        The tank will have to run full tilt (about 140 degrees) so you'll need 2 mixing valves. One 3/4" to temper domestic down to 120 degrees and the other the radiant. Radiant mixing valve should be 1" and temp range of 80-180.

        Start shopping for a new heater because that one won't go three years.
        Any brands/links on the mixing valves? Zone valve heads? Manifold?

        I know, I know. I'm out of my element.


        Thanks.


        J.C.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Helping Someone....

          I've got some decent piping diagrams laying around I'll try to find them. Your geographic location is a plus too. (I'm figuring Nunya is to the right and south)
          Over and out.

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          • #20
            Re: Helping Someone....

            The Rehau link gives you manifold and zone actuaters heads. RE Michel stocks these.

            I use a Honeywell/Sparco mixing valve AM101-1 (100-145 degree)for the domestic and AM102R (80-180) for radiant

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            • #21
              Re: Helping Someone....

              Okay.
              Attached Files

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              • #22
                Re: Helping Someone....

                Figure 12 is the proper setup for your application. This avoids the bacterial issue you're going to have in the off winter months.

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                • #23
                  Re: Helping Someone....

                  1 time in my career, I had to use a water heater for about 30' of baseboard.

                  I'm not a fan at all with using water heaters to heat a room.

                  Just my opinion though.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Helping Someone....

                    I used WIRSBO manifolds on a radiant job years ago. Seperate telestat heads to control each loop..What else ..Oh but this was on a boiler WIRSBO is pricey stuff..Pulled tubing for days..Didn't use the plates . They crackle like cheap tin pie plates when they heated up..I used plastic clamps with 1" drywall screws into the sub floor and theyjust snap closed..Kinda nice if you want to go through and layout all your clamps then just pull the tubing with help..I This was overhead in floor joist space..I also used the coiler for the rolls ..IMO a must have even with 2 people sometimes. Still wish I had the pictures of that job.
                    Last edited by OLD1; 01-20-2011, 03:59 PM.
                    ''Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" Benjamin Franklin

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                    • #25
                      Re: Helping Someone....

                      Me personally, your layout plays a significant roll as everything else in this scenario. I would try to design your circuits as short as possible and as equal in length as possible. Plates will give you the best heat transfer.
                      First and foremost, any asphalt-saturated felt under the flooring? That will outgas when heated. Yuk. Any obstructions in the joist pockets?

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                      • #26
                        Re: Helping Someone....

                        Thanks everyone. Just got back from getting a showerpan drain ready.

                        I'm familiar with the Honeywell domestic valve. What I use too. Never used the radiant one. Thanks for the number.

                        Didn't think of any tar based expansion paper on the subfloor either. I'll ask. Good tip.

                        To my knowledge there aren't any obstructions in the floor joist bays. No blocking or beams. But then again, that's his baby as he wants to run the pipe. I know he won't purchase an uncoiler/wheel. I don't have one and no-one around that I know has one either.

                        I reaaalllly want to setup a hidden camera when they get into a Greco-Roman PEX battle in the crawlspace.

                        And yes, Nunya is in N.C.

                        Thanks again. Getting local pricing on materials so far. Taco 009 vs. Variable Speed Grundfos. Leaning Grundfos.

                        O2 PEX.

                        I'll get pricing on the two valves listed by PC too.


                        J.C.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Helping Someone....

                          Do you just wire a typical stat from living space to pump?

                          And another dumb question. If you wanted more than 1 zone, would that require a separate stat & pump? That can't be right.

                          Could end up with stats and pumps all over the place. No?


                          Thanks.


                          J.C.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Helping Someone....

                            Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                            Do you just wire a typical stat from living space to pump?

                            And another dumb question. If you wanted more than 1 zone, would that require a separate stat & pump? That can't be right.

                            Could end up with stats and pumps all over the place. No?


                            Thanks.


                            J.C.
                            If only one zone then tstat wire goes to pump relay. (Honeywell R845A)

                            If multiple zone, each tstat wire goes to zone actuater mounted on the manifold. It's a small valve that opens and closes that individual loop on a call for heat. Once it's opened, the actuater tells the pump to come on. You can wire this several different ways but by far the easiest is using a zone control relay module. (Taco ZVC503)

                            Only one pump needed no matter how it's set up

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                            • #29
                              Re: Helping Someone....

                              Thanks for all the help. Puts me in the right direction & getting a material list together.


                              J.C.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Helping Someone....

                                Alrighty, here's my list:

                                3x300' rolls of 1/2" barrier PEX
                                Taco 009 Stainless Pump
                                Taco ZVC503 Zone Control Relay Module
                                Honeywell/Sparco mixing valve AM101-1
                                Honeywell AM102R
                                Rehau Manifold
                                Rehau Zone actuator heads
                                Two thermostats. One for bedroom & one for living room.

                                Diffuser Plates? Unnecessary? Enough pipe? Anything missing from the list or that should be deleted?


                                I went and measured. He's got roughly 900 square feet. Combination living room thru dining/kitchen area with vaulted ceilings over the living area. No walls separating any of it.

                                Then a bedroom one wall over. That would be the second zone. Maybe 250 square feet.

                                Majority is hardwood floor with 3/4" T&G board underneath. Kitchen & dining area have 3/4" T&G with roughly 5/8" tile thickness.

                                May be redundant information. Just trying to paint the picture for you.

                                Thanks.


                                J.C.

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