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  • Beckett

    We installed a new boiler today, and Columbia sent this summer/winter hook up with a Aquasmart boiler control (the first we have seen it) and a Genisys primary control on the oil burner.

    Fired off the Boiler and everything seemed fine. Boiler got up to temperature and shut off like it was suppose to do, but then it wouldn't fire back off again.

    In the Aquasmart Boiler control, we had power at B1 & B2 and the control was calling for heat, but yet the primary control did nothing. Took off the Primary control to make sure all the wire connections were secure, reinstalled...and still nothing.

    Read that some thermostats are polarity sensitive and reversed polarity can cause erratic cycling of the burner control.

    We personally think we got a defective primary control, as it's not the first time that's ever happen from the start.

    Customer has no heat or hot water, as it was too late to get another primary control. Pop is making a call to Beckett in the morning, as this one is making us pull our hair out.

    I know not many here install Oil burners, but has anyone ran into a similar problem with this exact set-up?

  • #2
    Re: Beckett

    What do the lights on the control tell you? Have you held the reset button down for a really long time? If you have power to the burner terminals that tells me all your limit switches are closed...hmmm...

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    • #3
      Re: Beckett

      Originally posted by plumberscrack View Post
      What do the lights on the control tell you? Have you held the reset button down for a really long time? If you have power to the burner terminals that tells me all your limit switches are closed...hmmm...
      The Aquasmart was telling us the boiler was running along with the temperature in the boiler being shown but nothing was happening. The primary went into lockout and we reset it, and the high and low limits were set correctly (180/160). After we reset the primary control, it wouldn't do anything, and we heard the Aquasmart click to try and turn the primary on and nothing. There was no "error" being flashed anywhere on the Aquasmart and the primary light stayed a solid green. If I tried holding down the reset on the primary, it did nothing.

      This Boiler fired right off and ran for a good 20 minutes or so until it shut off on temperature. All the Zones were coming back blazing hot and we just sat there with it while we were cleaning up.

      I won't be there today (dad will) as I have a ton of service calls to do today. He's calling Beckett at 8am this morning, and running up to Columbia to get a few primary controls (a few for stock), so I won't know what the solution is until later on today.

      A buddy of ours installed a Columbia boiler a few weeks ago, and had a similar problem with his primary control but it was a Honeywell. He called us in be cause the boiler was locking out and he couldn't figure it out. When we got there, we adjusted the air because he had too much air on the fire and it was knocking the fire out. We corrected that and sat there with it for an hour to make sure everything was running right. A day later he called us back cause the Boiler got locked out again, and here the primary control was defective, and we haven't been back since. Over the last year or so we have had our fair share of defective primary controls and we never really encountered that problem before with Honeywell at least.

      I feel bad for the homeowner because they had no heat or hot water last night, but thankfully it wasn't that cold last night. It's frustrating to say the least.

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      • #4
        Re: Beckett

        Got oil?

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        • #5
          Re: Beckett

          Originally posted by plumberscrack View Post
          Got oil?
          Yea, I was sitting there yesterday and I said to my dad " check the oil tank", and it was 3/4 full.

          So today my father called beckett and explained the problem and they said to check the "cad cell" eye, then wire harness, then replace primary control in that order. My father has over 40 years of burner service, and he said to himself ' It can't be the cad cell eye". Pop said in 40 years he's only had 1 bad cad cell eye he came across, and it's rare for them to go bad.

          So my pop stopped at Columbia Boiler on the way and picked up a few cad cell harnesses, a few primary controls, but he always has a few cad cell eyes on the truck.

          He put the cad cell eye in first, and the Boiler fired right off!!! Right then and there it hit him...significant different between Honeywell Primary control and Beckett's primary control.

          Honeywell - If the cad cell eye is bad, it will still run for a minute when you keep turning the power off, and then shut down on safety.

          Beckett Genisys - This primary control will not do that at all. If the cad cell eye is bad, it shuts the entire burner down and won't even try to start no matter if you turn the power off or not ( big difference).

          Beckett told my father, quite a few Boiler companies are making the mistake of "thinking" these primary controls are bad right off the bat. Other contractors are handing them back for credit thinking they are defective primary controls when they are perfectly fine. Beckett is telling these manufactures if they don't stop trying to hand in perfectly good primary controls, they are going to start back charging these boiler manufactures.

          So it looks like we were not alone in thinking it was a defective primary control...it's just operates a little differently then the Honeywell, and most contractors are use to the Honeywell primary's.

          So it was our fault for not knowing how that primary control works, but then again, nowhere on beckett's website do they talk about a bad cad cell eye shutting the burner down for good either.

          So yes, the customer was without heat and hot water last night, as my father and I both had cad cell eyes on our trucks!

          I never seen a bad cad cell eye before, and it's even more shocking to me cause this entire boiler was brand spanking new! The cad cell eye was defective from the factory.

          Also...

          You can go from a Honeywell primary control to a Beckett Genisys, but you can't go from a Beckett Genisys to a Honeywell primary, cause the Honeywell control has 1 less electric post.
          Last edited by Flux; 12-21-2011, 10:06 PM.

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          • #6
            Re: Beckett

            You could have cycled through the Genysis control screens and it would have told you what the cad cell resistance was reading.
            sigpic

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            • #7
              Re: Beckett

              Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
              You could have cycled through the Genysis control screens and it would have told you what the cad cell resistance was reading.
              We didn't realize the Aquasmart was the same exact thing as our contractor tool (that we couldn't find to save our life), as this was our first boiler with an aquasmart installed. We scrolled through the screens, but we never found the other options where it gives the history of the boiler cycles.

              We definitely learnt a few things on this one.

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              • #8
                Re: Beckett

                I dont do a lot of oil boiler servicing but what would be the standard procedure for checking the cad cell?
                Last edited by plumberscrack; 12-23-2011, 05:53 PM.

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                • #9
                  Re: Beckett

                  Originally posted by plumberscrack View Post
                  I dont do a lot of oil boiler servicing but what would be the standard procedurr for checking the cad cell?
                  Before the Beckett Genisys came out, the Honeywell R7184 primary control was easy to check the cad cell. I was taught regardless of it being a new boiler set-up or after cleaning a boiler, you always take the eye out to make sure the boiler shuts down on safety. That is so embedded in my brain it's a natural habit for me to check them that way. You can also use an ohms meter while the boiler is running as well.

                  Like I posted above, the new Genisys primary control confused us, because it doesn't act the same way as the Honewell R7184 when it has a bad eye. The thing I don't like about the Aquasmart boiler control is, it didn't give us an "error code" when the cad cell was obviously bad. I scrolled through all the screens and could find a cycle history, and Beckett claims there is one on there, but I couldn't find it. If I would of had my Beckett contractor tool with me, I could off seen that cycle history and went from there.

                  We don't ask for specific controls on Boilers when we order them, except if a customer specifically asks for it. This boiler coming through with an Aquasmart installed threw a curve at us, even though it's cut and dry...very easy. If the Genisys primary would of started the burner, and shut down again on safety, we would of automatically known the eye was bad. When you have all that..and throw in that fact that this boiler fired right off after install and ran for a good 20 minutes until it got up to temperature..we started looking in other places for failure until I got to testing out the Burner posts on the Aquasmart, and I had 120v there. The screen on the Aquasmart was saying the boiler was running...but it wasn't, and I think Beckett needs a software update on that, because that was obviously deceiving.

                  So if you ever run across a Beckett Genisys primary control, and the burner won't even start to shut off on safety...keep the cad-cell eye in mind after all of your other checks.

                  But the moral of this is...cad-cell eyes rarely go bad...RARELY! Like I posted above, my father has seen 1 bad cad cell eye in 40 years before this job...and this was my first. Even though they rarely go bad, it's absolutely the first thing that should be checked to make sure the safety works.
                  Last edited by Flux; 12-23-2011, 04:04 PM.

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