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  • what's the difference between these two layout?

    Attachment Attachment Two yrs ago, we did oil to gas conversion. In the same time, we moved the boiler from one room to another. The main line is 1" pipe. In the old layout, the ends of the return and supply was not connected. The plumber connected the ends together during the conversion. There is no other changes related to the existing pipes. There is no other device/valve attached to the individual CI baseboards. Please have the look at the diagrams attached. The old Oil boiler is located at top right corner and the new Gas boiler is located at the bottom left corner.

    My questions are what's the difference if the ends are connected and the ends are not connected?
    Are they both 2-pipes direct return heating system?
    Attached Files
    Last edited by thisnewowner; 01-24-2012, 11:16 PM.

  • #2
    Re: what's the difference between these two layout?

    I'm gonna guess it was simply a matter of how your plumber chose to tie into the system when the boiler was relocated. It has been a while since I have done Hydronics so check back shortly and I bet one of the East Coast Pros will help ya out.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Why my plumber connected the supply and return ends together?

      ok your picture has 2 pumps is that the way it is .
      there is also a bypass at the pumps is there a valve on the bypass and is it open or closed
      i dont see why they had to loop the end i never do that, with it looped at the end the water will take the quickest way and that is the loop . if it is not looped it water has to go through the heaters 100%
      the bypass may be there so you dont shock the boiler with cold water
      Charlie

      My seek the peek fundraiser page
      http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


      http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

      new work pictures 12/09
      http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Why my plumber connected the supply and return ends together?

        The system is still a 1 pipe system, and I agree with Okie that your Plumber probably installed it that way as a matter of preference. You most likely have a Cast iron boiler and I agree with Hawk that he installed it that way most likely so you won't crack a section by injecting very cold water into the system when it re-fills. However, you mostly see that set-up on steam versus hot water, cause the sections get much hotter on steam. I must admit though, I've never seen a bypass installed the way your illustration shows. I also agree on the loop as that is a "head scratcher" for me. There was no logical reason for your Plumber to install it that way.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Why my plumber connected the supply and return ends together?

          is your boiler for heating only

          does the boiler maintain a temp or does it only come on when calling for heat

          my boiler is for heat only and will only come on when the Tstat calls for heat ,it is a gas boiler and if it has not been on all day it only takes about 5 min for it to heat up
          Charlie

          My seek the peek fundraiser page
          http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


          http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

          new work pictures 12/09
          http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Why my plumber connected the supply and return ends together?

            Originally posted by HVAC HAWK View Post
            is your boiler for heating only

            does the boiler maintain a temp or does it only come on when calling for heat

            my boiler is for heat only and will only come on when the Tstat calls for heat ,it is a gas boiler and if it has not been on all day it only takes about 5 min for it to heat up
            Come on Hawk...put a boiler in with a Coil

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Why my plumber connected the supply and return ends together?

              yes, my Burnham boiler is for heating only. It only come on when calling for heat. Mine is not as quick as yours to heat up the house.

              The boiler loop is recommended by boiler installation manual (page 46). The plumber didn't touch anything else except both ends. Because he connected the ends I thought it was a monoflo system. I found old photos and found the supply and return was not connected before the conversion. So I think it was a 2-pipe direct return or reverse return system. But now I don't know what's the name of the setting.

              The boiler loop is designed to make sure return to and supply from the boiler are balanced. It doesn't make scense to connected the supply and return together then, I think.

              Do you think it is a good idea to ask next plumber install a ball valve there to see if it works better when shut the connection off. I probably will add one or two circulator zone in soon. We told the plumber our long term plan during the conversion so the boiler is big enough for planned additions, I think.
              Attached Files
              Last edited by thisnewowner; 01-25-2012, 11:57 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Why my plumber connected the supply and return ends together?

                i hate tp say this but i dont like the way this is piped i will post a picture of the way it should be
                Charlie

                My seek the peek fundraiser page
                http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


                http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

                new work pictures 12/09
                http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: what's the difference between these two layout?





                  ok this is a primary / secondary system . all the pumps are pumping away ,out of the boiler and pumping into the system

                  i dont know why your is not looped you have one pump pushing into the other pump .maybe this way works for one zone but it wont work if you add zones
                  Charlie

                  My seek the peek fundraiser page
                  http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


                  http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

                  new work pictures 12/09
                  http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: what's the difference between these two layout?

                    ow the pumps on this system are pumping into the boiler because this is a copper boiler with a flow switch

                    Charlie

                    My seek the peek fundraiser page
                    http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


                    http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

                    new work pictures 12/09
                    http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: what's the difference between these two layout?

                      you can see some of my work pictures here http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/my-work-pictures/
                      Charlie

                      My seek the peek fundraiser page
                      http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


                      http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

                      new work pictures 12/09
                      http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Why my plumber connected the supply and return ends together?

                        Originally posted by HVAC HAWK View Post
                        i hate tp say this but i dont like the way this is piped i will post a picture of the way it should be
                        I don't like the way it's piped either, and I can't understand why there are 2 circulators on the feed, with the return piped connected to it as well. I have to be honest, I don't understand how it's working like that.

                        I also don't like seeing ball valves next to the expansion tank either. I would be worried someone would knock into it, and close it, or the homeowner closing it by accident. If a valve is a must for the installer, a stop and waste would be a much better choice.

                        As a personal preference, I like piping in "back feeds" into the return line on boilers, cause automatic feeds do fail. I also would of installed a LWCO, and he's especially going to need it if he adds heat in the basement.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Why my plumber connected the supply and return ends together?

                          PA boiler code says you need a valve on expansion tanks
                          Charlie

                          My seek the peek fundraiser page
                          http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


                          http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

                          new work pictures 12/09
                          http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Why my plumber connected the supply and return ends together?

                            Originally posted by HVAC HAWK View Post
                            PA boiler code says you need a valve on expansion tanks
                            Is that a commercial code or residential code? I don't understand the thought process behind that...help me out Hawk.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Why my plumber connected the supply and return ends together?

                              My guess is So You Can service or replace th√© expansion tank while leaving System opperational? Just √* guess thou

                              Comment

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