Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Taking advantage of the cold.

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Taking advantage of the cold.

    It's 8 below today.
    What ways can we take advantage of it?

    Why don't refrigerators and freezers connect to outside
    vents with dampers to bring in the cold?

    We think about capturing the wind, heat, sun and such
    but we have an abundance of cold.

    Lots more ideas but this is a place to start.

  • #2
    Re: Taking advantage of the cold.

    I did some accounting yesterday we were below 0 all day, (I doubt if that is what you had in mind)

    well in the "good Old days" they would go cut ice out of the rivers and lakes to cool there food during the summer,

    in days gone by most butchering was done to take advantage of the natural cooler,

    and I have heard that ice fishing is a good use of cold days, and with the cold days you could not ice fish,
    Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
    attributed to Samuel Johnson
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Taking advantage of the cold.

      So just how possible or impossible is venting the outside cold into
      a freezer or refrigerator?

      Could we store cold/ice in an underground area to supplement a heat pump for
      A/C ?

      There have been ideas over time that were lost.

      I once remodeled an old mansion that had a chicken sh*t generator
      to create gas for the gas lights.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Taking advantage of the cold.

        Originally posted by fixitright View Post
        So just how possible or impossible is venting the outside cold into
        a freezer or refrigerator?

        It is possible though mostly unfeasible for most people. There is the inherent problem of humidity/frost buildup with open systems. Also, the possibility of contaminants entering from outside.
        ~~

        ... it was plumbed by Ray Charles and his helper Stevie Wonder

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Taking advantage of the cold.

          I work at a housing project that a few tenants would crack the front door to let cold air come in , just so the heater would keep running
          Thermostats just went up too 90 deg and would shut off

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Taking advantage of the cold.

            I think it would be like most off grid stuff, if you would design it from the start it is reasonably simple, but if you want to retrofit more of a challenge as you all ready have the stuff that is usually not off grid compatible as there energy hogs,

            when one comes up with practical operation and applications. one could do it with ease, but one would most likely have it on an exterior wall, design issue for some, and the you would have a system of dampers and thermostats to determine what source of cold/heat is the more efferent to use, possibly a humistate, and some circuitry for differential of temperatures.

            also it is like my DD place there refrigerator was in a insulated and unheated porch area, it keep cold by the lack of heat, but the freezer would melt, as the refrigerator was cold enough not run the compressor but the freezer was not cold enough to keep the frozen froze, as the refrigerator had the coils in the freezer and vents or fan to let drop in to the refrigerator to cool it, with out the compressor running some it did not work on the freezer,

            in my walk in cooler one winter when I was hanging beef I ended up having to put a small heater in it to keep it from freezing, as it is on two out side walls in a corner and the rest is in a unheated section of the barn,

            years ago before mechanical cooling they would make a dry well, and affix a dumb waiter to enter the dry well, and would run it up to get some thing and then lower it back into the well, to work as a cooling area, using the natural earth temperatures for the cooling,
            farmers would set there milk cans in a trough that was fed by the wind mill water to keep the milk and cream from spoiling and as the trough filled it would run into the cows water tank or a cistern. for the house use

            I would think if one could develop some type of Ice bank system, (at one time, not sure if there approved any more), they used a Ice bank system for milk coolers, to store the cold of the mechanical cooling system, and so the system would not need to sized to cool say 100 gallons of milk from 100 degrees down to 35f or so in 30 mins. or less, (forget what grade a rules are for cooling milk)
            so they had a ice, bank technology, the cooler would freeze a jacket with water in to ice and when the warm milk hit the tank it would cool it as the ice melted, and if properly sized it would cool the milk in the required time,

            some one could possibly take an idea like this and put a jacket around the cooling area, and use a coil of anti freeze that would run through it and to the out side to a radiator type thing that would collect the cold and then back in to the house to the cooler, and freeze or cool the water, and store the cold for some time, and when the temps were above a given setting out side it would stop pumping, and if it got to cold in side the cooler it may shut off the coil as well,
            then have the normal coil inside so when it was warm out,
            (one may be able to extend some thing like that as well, (say in the basement or insulated cistern) have a second coil that would work until the entire cistern was froze solid and then on warmer days use that cold to be transfer to the cooler via the tubing,
            if one would engineer the insulation and volume of the storage cistern), and go with a chest type configuration, one may be able to do your refrigeration totally by the cold in the winter, (in colder climates), but to make it work would most likely all need to be from scratch, And by using various brine solutions one could some what possibly control the cold ness of the ice,

            (possibly the dumb waiter idea into a center tank of the cistern) depending on how your coils are design one should be able to freeze the water with out it expanding and distorting things, by not trapping the water in places as it freezes),

            when I first read this posting my first thought to use it realistically you need to store it, and cold is hard to store as it absorbs heat.
            Last edited by BHD; 02-07-2014, 05:14 PM.
            Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
            attributed to Samuel Johnson
            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Holes beneath refrigerator to pull up cooler basement air.

              If our refrigerator were on a north or east exterior wall, I would consider installing a vent to cool the coils and compressor.
              I'd take an educated guess - but I'm unqualified.
              It ain't just soot, it's paydirt.
              "I swear, wherever Gift goes, argument follows." -Youtube comment

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Holes beneath refrigerator to pull up cooler basement air.

                Good to see some thoughts on this.

                In the past there were ice storage caves and basements. With all the technology we have it
                seems a waste to not use the extreme cold to our advantage. (heat too!)

                Our northern summers are getting warmer so any ideas could benefit us in many ($$) ways.

                Creative ideas come from all over. How about some more.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Taking advantage of the cold.

                  Originally posted by DELCASE View Post
                  I work at a housing project that a few tenants would crack the front door to let cold air come in , just so the heater would keep running
                  Thermostats just went up too 90 deg and would shut off
                  . Because 90 deg just is not enough,,,and the landlord is paying for the heat

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Taking advantage of the cold.

                    I think part of the problem is one can come up with systems, and systems that would work, and work well,
                    but say a home refrigerator is $700, if one would go up to mu upper post, and tried to construct a system with storage and a real workability what would that cost? just to insulate and to build the storage would take thousands of dollars and then how much more in electronics and such would it take to make it "reliable enough" to please some one who has had a standard refrigerator, and then most likely one would still need the standard refrigerator or at least the workings of it to have a back up.

                    In a place where you have no power or little power, it may be a consideration,

                    it is like wind or solar they work but are expensive to put in to a point where there workable for the average person, I would love to have wind turbine that would run the farm, but a commercial unit is at least $30,000 and most likely when set up and finished and operational you would have $50,000 in before you get one KWH out of it, even at $200 a month power bill, how many years is that in pay back (20.8 years), and that is not any maintaince or repairs, most likely one would need at least one set of blades in that time, guessing 3 or 4 thousand, (if your working off of batteries about 10 year life and and about 10 to 20 thousand a set, for the size of farm I have,
                    so in 30-40 years you may break even,

                    the only thing that helps in the pay back is that the cost of power will continue to escalate in cost, so you may get pay back in 15 to 20 years, instead of 30 to 40,
                    but there is constant maintance that would need to be done, on some part of it, and one would still need a generator for back up, or the grid,

                    unless a manufacture can come up with a very simple system that is of no bother to the home owner and the install cost is minimal it would never be wide spread and also a guaranteed saving on cost of operations, and it was no additional work, to the home owner,

                    It is a lot like trying to sell insulation or a reinsulate, or reto insulate, job, HOW MUCH DOES IT COST? no way am I spending $1500- $2000 for that crap, I would rather pay $300 a month, and besides I on government heat assistance, when the insulation would cut the cost of heat in half, so many times saving that amount in one heating season.

                    (car companies would go broke if people had to pay the price of a car or truck with out payments, cars are sold on there payments a month not on the over all cost of the unit),

                    most all consumers are the same way it is the direct out of pocket cost, and unless they can see major reduction in that out of pocket expense they will not invest in a product most of the time,
                    Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
                    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                    "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
                    attributed to Samuel Johnson
                    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                    PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

                    Comment

                    Working...
                    X