Announcement Announcement Module
Collapse
No announcement yet.
curiosity question, would someone be so kind? Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse
X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • curiosity question, would someone be so kind?

    I have been having some weird problems with my furnace. Primarily with regard to it igniting all the time. The first time it happened was about a month or so ago and i reset the gas valve and all was well. It was starting to get cold yesterday so i turned up the thermostat. Not paying attention to if the furnace kicked on or not i just went on about my business. When i went to the basement to grab some clothes, my furnace was humming. I pulled the front cover and it was the exhaust motor that was seized. I gave it a smack and it started to go, but it was HOT. I unplugged it, plugged it back in and it began to hum again. Smacked it again and it got to going but was making noise. Now i am no furnace guru, but i do know what an electric motor sounds like when it throws a bearing. Well i was calling around last night and no one stocked the part. so calling a furnace guy to come out after hours would have been a waste. I was just going to go pick up a new assembly today and install it. Meanwhile my wife knows someone who does commercial work, we called him and he told me to hit the bearing with WD-40 and try to get it to spin freely and that should get me through the night. Then on a hunch i called a friend that picks up scrap and he knew someone who works local but also works on the side and is trying to go into business for himself. He just so happened to have a used one (2 yrs old) that came out of a furnace he put in and then had to replace when the family put an addition on the house. HE came out and fixed her up for 100 bucks. (the part would have cost me more than that as i am sure most of you know).

    Ok so here is my question. He said that i did not have a chimney liner and as such that is why that motor died and why i am having ignition problems. Something to do with the furnace being hot and condensation running down the chimney and back into the furnace?? He also said that they are code and one should have been installed when the furnace was installed. (the furnace was put in in 1994 according to the sticker inside, long before I owned the home.

    He kind of explained it to me, but i am confused, a bit lost, and want to make sure i am not being fed a line of crap. So with that being said, would someone be so kind to explain to me exactly what and why a chimney liner is/is necessary? And also, how much should it cost to have one installed? The chimney is brick.

    Thanks for your help
    \"A SHIP OF WAR IS THE BEST AMBASSADOR\"<br /><br />OLIVER CROMWELL

  • #2
    weather or not the condisation is your problem i would sugest getting a chemney for health reasons. thier is a reason it is now code to put in chemney liners. if you do not have one you can get co to enter your house. it could leak through your chemney into your house. i installed one in a house a month ago. they cost around 500 i belive(i work for a company so i am not 100% on the price). thats an hvac company price. don't forget installation. the customer called the night before conplaining that he walked into his house and his eyes started to burn. he has a oil fired furnace and an old chemney with no liner. needless to say the exaust fumes leak through his chimney. if your exaust from your gas furnace leaks into your house you will not smell it. i am not sure on what kind of gas furnace you have but from my experince you might be able to vent your furnace out the side of your house with pvc or small metal pipe. call your local hvac company and ask if they can vent it out the side of your house. if they can it should be cheaper
    support our troops we need it

    Comment


    • #3
      SpaceBlue,

      Okay, this is new to me also, but let me try to explain it as I understand it. We had our old furnace bite the dust this past February. We have a good chimney (original when the house was built, 80 years ago) and inspecting it through the clean-out door on the bottom, the chimney is in good shape and completely clean.

      So, the old furnace developed a crack in its exchanger and the gas company comes out and declares it unsafe because carbon-monoxide is now blowing through the plenum and up into the house. They shut it off immediately and within a couple of hours we have a brand new Trane forced-air unit sitting in our cellar.

      By the end of the next day, we are hooked up and running and the old furnace removed, etc. New furnace, new plenums and some new runs to hook up to the old piping. The guys tell me that I need a new liner, and as soon as the weather breaks, they'd get me on the schedule.

      I'm envisioning a whole new chimney or something like clay tiles having to be mortored into the old chimney; but, they tell be it's basically just an expandable (I'm thinking accordian type) liner that they lower down into the chimney. Obviously they have to get up on the roof for this. "How much more is it going to cost me?" I ask and they tell me it is included in the estimate.

      Why do we need it? Well as I understand it, the newer furnaces run much hotter than the old ones (this is very true, I've checked the exhaust pipe to the chimney). This heat will cause a problem in the old fashioned brick chimney because, as the funace cools down, moisture will collect in the chimney and possibly cause problems with the bricks, mortar, etc. which then could lead to a fire hazard. So, the liner is required by the building codes.

      They haven't done this yet, but are supposed to be out sometime in the next week or so. My total bill came to $2,800 and it is supposed to include the liner. Seeing your post makes me think I need to call them again and confirm this. I'll let you know further.

      CWS

      Comment


      • #4
        I'm no expert on furnaces but are you sure new furnaces run hotter than the older ones? My house is 4 years old now so that is the max age of the furnace and it vents through black plastic drain pipe (out the side of the house) that is always cool enough to leave your hand on the pipe indefinetly. I think if you need a liner the furnace must be low efficiency.

        Comment


        • #5
          HIGH EFFICIENCY WATER HEATERS VENT THROUGH PLASTIC PIPE. FAN FORCED EXHAUST WITH OUTSIDE MAKEUP AIR. THERE ARE FURNACES THAT ARE SIMILAR TOO.

          Comment


          • #6
            The new Trane forced hot air unit that was installed this past February definitely runs hotter. The old Pennsylvainia Furnace Company unit vented through a 6-inch (or so) pipe that connected it to the chimney and the Trane does the same thing. When the old furnace ran, this pipe was warm to the touch, while the new furnace is definitely hot!

            Frankly I loved the old furnace. It was tested by in the late 70's when we bought the house and indicattions were that it was 85% efficient. The new unit is about 90% they tell me. The old unit was larger, double burner, big cast iron heat exchanger, blower, etc., and much higher BTU rating; but, it ran quiet. The new unit sounds like a turbo, as air is mixed with the gas in an injection like process that allegedly burns hotter through the pressed steel tubes of the heat exchanger. The exhaust piping would definitly indicate that this is true.

            CWS

            Comment


            • #7
              Follow-up:

              I called the company that installed my furnace and I'm on their schedule for May 9th to have the liner placed in my chimney. I asked what their charge was for that part of the job and was told it averages around $600. The fellow told me it was for a labor charge plus so much per foot for the stainless steel pipe that they used as the liner. For my particular project, the cost was included in the total bill for the new furnace, installation, etc.

              He also explained that it was to prevent damage to the chimney because of condensation often caused by the furnace.

              CWS

              Comment


              • #8
                first thing trane gas furnaces are #1 in my book. they last a long time and the heat exchanger seems to last just as long. i work on tranes all the time and i am getting ready to put one in my house. 2800 for the install of the furnace and the liner sounds like a good deal to me. and you should feel safer with it instaled. also i suggest an co detector in your home if you have a gas furnce. some gas furnaces do run hotter all depends on what type you get. your trane gas furnace is probly a cheaper model and thats why it would be like a turbo. trane makes some models when you have the door on it you can't hear it.
                support our troops we need it

                Comment


                • #9
                  We bought the next to best unit Trane has. The best was slightly more efficient, ran about another $400 as I recall, but the rep said it was slightly louder as they try to squeeze every bit of energy out of the gas as possible.

                  Frankly, the noise probably wouldn't bother most people and I barely hear it, but my wife has ultra-sensitive hearing. Most everything built today is noisier than they used to make them... with the exception of automobiles. [img]smile.gif[/img]

                  CWS

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Liners are needed in brick chimnies because of carbon monoxide. It is a colorless odorless gas that will kill you. For years the chimney was over looked as a health hazard. It was always assumed the poison would go right on out with the heat. This is not always true. Under many different atmospheric conditions the carbon monoxide simply pools into the bottom of the chimney and seeps through the poors of the brick into the homes. If your furnace vents into a brick chimney you need a liner.

                    Having nearly been killed by this gas last summer due to another contractors gross incompetence in a steel processing facility I can attest to the dangers of carbon monoxide. You may not know you are even in trouble until its too late.

                    Carbon Monoxide adheres to your blood cells and prevents them from passing oxygen to the other cells in the body. These cells cannot be repaired. If you have some damaged cells you may not even feel a problem. But as the poisoning continues you have more and more cells unable to do their job. Long term slow poisoning may not even be recognized by its victims. You will slowly feel tired and wear out faster and then simply wonder why. Gradually your thinking processes change and you get confused more easily or cannot concentrate.

                    Short term high dose carbon monoxide poisoning will bring one to unconciousness within minutes. if you are not removed shortly after unconciousness you will die. Even if removed in time long term side effects can be felt for days and even years later. Permenant brain damage is common in high dose survivors.

                    Please, don't save a few hundred bucks and scrimp on a chimney liner.
                    Work hard, Play hard, Sleep easy.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Plumber,

                      Thanks, that was a great piece of information and certainly more critical to the need for a chimney liner than the "condensation" explanation my local service guy provided. I had already paid for the liner which was included with the funace installation, but thanks to SpaceBlue's post, I was reminded that t was time to call the company to find out when they intended to do that. So now we're on there schedule for next week.

                      Thanks again for the posts,

                      CWS

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Condensation is a legitimate concern and can cause problems with todays higher efficiency units. But CO is definantly the bigger concern.

                        If the chimney is in bad shape(cracked mortar and missing bricks) its even more crucial to get it repaired and lined.

                        Years ago, pre 70s, most homes were not really very air tight. The carbon monoxide that leaked into the home generally leaked right on out. When the first energy crisis hit in the early 70s and everyone suddenly discovered caulking and storm windows and the like, carbon monoxide build up in the homes became more common and people started paying attention to it.

                        Unfortunatly there are still many who think building codes are a joke or that they are just our governments way of controlling us. Every code established has come about to solve a known problem and to keep careless, unscrupulous or just plain incompetent contractors from screwing their fellow American.
                        Work hard, Play hard, Sleep easy.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I will be getting it taken care of prior to the heating season. With regard to the houses being air tight, I know what you mean. Noticed a HUGE difference when we had new siding and replaced all the windows. The house is much closer to air tight now. The screen doors had to be adjusted because of the difference. The only thing left is when we remodel, room by room, is to insulate. And I have an old cinder block foundation, it is in good shape, but the windows need to be replaced. I have the glass block windows with the vents in the garage, just need to get them in. Hopefully I will be able to get them done for the winter. But the house is much more air tight than it was prior to the new windows and siding.
                          \"A SHIP OF WAR IS THE BEST AMBASSADOR\"<br /><br />OLIVER CROMWELL

                          Comment

                          Working...
                          X