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IThe only issue I ran into was air in the line. The old tank took oil from the bottom but the Roth sucks it from a few inches above, which is good, as you never need to worry about crud getting into your burner or clogging the filter BUT...it also is easier for air to get into the line! I guess when the oil is delivered it creates a lot of air bubbles & foam in the tank. In my case the tank was moved from 50' away to 5' away, so it was even more of an issue. One day in Dec. I got an oil delivery and a few hours later my burner stopped working. Pushing the reset button didn't work...so my dealer had to come out to get the air out...nice guy didn't even charge for the service call. The solution was to put in a tiger loop (sp?), which takes out the air and self primes if need be.
Isn't the tiger loop mechanical, with a relatively short fixed lifetime (like 5 years). I had the same problem, my EK1 kept loosing prime, so the oil company installed a return line from the boiler to the tank. One disadvantage of this setup is that the 2 line system is louder at the tank than the one line system.
I don't know anything about a 5 yr. life but yes there is no power going to it. BTW if someone wants to do a search it's spelled Tigerloop (all one word)
The unit looks sort of like a glass bowl but upside down, the idea behind it is the air rises to the top of the bowl and comes out of the top. I think the only thing that could go wrong is that it could get clogged at the air outlet.
for a great article with pics and diagrams check out: http://www.westwoodproducts.com/tigerloop_article.htm
Well it's been a year & 4 months with my Energy Kinetics system 2000, so I thought I'd do an update on my LONG first review.
I first want to say I'm very happy with the boiler, it's been great for both heat & hot water & quietness. As far as oil savings, absolutely wonderful! I saved 260 gallons of oil in one year! It actually would have been much more, as it was computed with just simple math over an exact years time, the K factor & other things were not included in the number. When I talked to my oil guy he was very impressed as the winter before was very mild in CT so he figured it was closer to 300-325 gallons saved if the winter's were the same. I also must say we are taking much longer showers now, and I now keep the heat at 68-70 rather than 66, and I also am heating part of the basement...so the savings would be more than that! I just went from Sept3 09 to Dec. 29 and only used 187 gal. of oil in 4 months, I usually get 2, 250 gallon deliveries in that time!
Hi, I am new to this forum and wanted to ask a question about my system 2000 boiler. I have had it for 4 years now and it saves me money.
The only problem I am having is that for the past few days now I have to keep reseting my boiler to get my hot water. Just yesterday i had to do it 4 times.
Now, this wasnt the only time it has happened. It sems to mostly happen on a hot and humid day mostly in the summer so when this does happen i only lose my hot water.
I had called the company that installed it when it first happend about 2 years ago and the result of that visit was that i needed a chimney liner. I never put it in and since then it has happened more frequently.
What i really would like to know is... Is this the solutoin or is it just an attemp to solve the problem. I have not heard of this situatoin on any other discussion post so i was not sure if this is a common problem.
I hav a nat gas unit with the outside air intake if it makes any difference.
The gas valve is wired in series with a "puff" switch. If there is positive pressure over fire the valve may open and allow the burner to fire and then close again due to the increased back pressure from the flue gases. Did the tech who checked out the system monitor draft over fire on startup? That's the only sure way to determine if draft is the problem. If he's uncertain about it, he can always call the company's tech support for assistance.
I own an energy kinetics system 2000. don't listen to anyone else. this system is a TOTAL piece of crap. I hate the damn thing. Every year I need to have someone fix the piece of crap. The system manager works for about a year - then you need to replace the thing - $500. No companies service the piece of crap. Call Energy Kinetics - but only 9-5 M-F. They are never available. I would rather heat my house with a hair dryer. This company should be embarassed to say "made in USA" don't believe anyone else - THIS SYSTEM IS A PIECE OF ****
If you have to replace the manager every year and you're being charged for it, #1 the service company is ripping you off big time, #2 you must have a big "S" on your forehead. Who else would pay $500 a year for a product with a warranty on it?
I have had a System 2000 since 1994 - 17 years. The original steel boiler and the electronic master control are both performing perfectly. I am in NH with a local heating system design temperature of -15 F.
My oil use dropped significantly when I installed the System 2000 after 17 years with the original boiler that was installed when we built our house in 1977. It is a very quiet system and gives us unlimited hot water with fast recovery.
My only problem with the System 2000 has been with the zone valve that serves our finished basement loop. The water returns very cold, especially for the first call in the morning. This causes the zone valve to operate frequently and results in frequent motor burn outs, about eight in 17 years. Recently, the whole valve (internal rubber parts) deteriorated and stuck closed. A new design valve was installed and it became stuck internally after one month. This happened on a 0 degree F evening and resulted in frozen pipes and about $1,000 in plumbing and valve repair costs!!!!!
I am now ready to replace the System 2000 just to get away from the zone valve setup. I have looked at a Buderus G115WS, but I think I may actually go for a new System 2000. If I go with the System 2000 I will specify that it be configured with all circulator pumps and NO zone valves.
It is our cold basement loop (slab on grade, walk-out basement) that is causing the problem. We still have the original zone valves and motors (17 years!) in the upstairs and hot water zones.
If you live in NH and more specifically in the seacoast area, there is a pretty good chance the either I or someone that worked for me put that in. We were the first company in the area to install System 2000. John Marrin came to see us personally and gave us great support and even helped with the first couple of units we installed. We still install them. There is nothing on the market that performs like a system 2000.
Plenty of people want to try the EK and if the system was everything it's supposed to be then they would just take over the market immediately. It boils down to whether or not you can rely on it. Nobody wants to wake up cold. There's tons of anecdotes about problems with various parts lasting because of how it cycles, the boards failing and that many service companies not knowing them and the company dismisses it all but that's what holds them back. The burner can't be the problem because it's just a plain vanilla Beckett and the guys all have those parts. As for boards, going digital does not give me any warm feeling because every circuit board these days just burn out randomly and nobody can predict it. Just like my GE washer that blows a board and the new board costs 80% of what I paid for the washer. GE loves it and it's built into their business model to buy boatloads of boards which cost nothing and charge plenty when they go bad. It's the gift that keeps on giving. Every appliance in my house is like that now. Does EK do that? who knows? will they tell you? NO. They say that most of the boards that come back were OK and sent back because it's easier than figuring them out but if the boards were cheap enough to keep a few around then it wouldn't be an issue anymore.. No company will really tell you about their statistics and always point fingers at other factors in failures. I don't blame them.
The only statistics you can get is from the service guys who each have a few and want to sell more. I don't blame them either but I would like to know more specifics about failure modes when they did go.
Anyway, sorry for the rant but I really do want to try an EK right now but as long as the company does not address the criticism more directly then they will continue to grow slowly and I will end up with a Biasi-Riello-Superstor just to play it safe. I hate waking up cold.
BTW, I'm not any kind of engineer but I thought that steel was more resistant to corrosion but fatigued faster than iron during temperature cycling which is why the fancy stainless muffler pipes don't corrode but crack faster, getting brittle.
The truth is that about half of the managers that are replaced have no defect. Some of the reasons for replacement include burner lockouts, failed zone valves and jammed circulators.
The manager has a limited lifetime warranty. After the initial warranty term, there is a core credit given if the manager fails that drops the total cost to about the same as a primary control. In addition the service board can be used to temporarily bypass the manager until a replacement can be obtained. Can you do that with your washer?
No, they make more money off the boards than the washers, I'm starting to believe that they make the washers just for that. Anyway, every appliance is like that. If you get a Tekmar and it blows the board, you're stuck in the same boat I'm sure.
It's just that EK won't tell you anything about pricing so I have no idea what the core credit might be, how much the boards are and it just doesn't inspire confidence. If I can't just get a board from them and know how much it will cost, why should I build my life around that system? Especially when there's lots of posts saying it's a problem?