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How to keep vertical lines plumb & square

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  • #16
    Re: How to keep vertical lines plumb & square

    I never use anything but oxy/acy for silver soldering. silver soldering with a swirl jet or equivalent is like driving a railroad spike in with a tack hammer imo. plus that's why so many joints look like they have been used to wipe butts, cold joint globs, and the longer you keep heat on a joint the more oxidization you get.
    Last edited by BILLG; 09-17-2007, 09:54 AM.

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    • #17
      Re: How to keep vertical lines plumb & square

      For med gas up to 1" or so we use a swirl tip/turbo torch... Generally this is for working inside the walls, by the zone valves and outlets etc...
      Anything bigger on med gas we use oxy/acetylene as the time spent heating the fitting is so much shorter...

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      • #18
        Re: How to keep vertical lines plumb & square

        Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
        Adam,

        I would not research too hard as I am sure you already know the limitations of a Turbo Torch tip for brazing.

        Mark
        Mark,
        Yes,the fittings are black and ugly.The hvac tradesmen use the oxy-actln and the finished product looks the same as the air-actln I'm using.The only sizes I've seen them work with is the 3/8-3/4 line sets.

        Gear junkie,just answered all my questions last night.

        Looks like I may be getting a oxy rig soon.

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        • #19
          Re: How to keep vertical lines plumb & square

          How come a silver brazed joint only needs roughly 25% penetration for an acceptable joint?
          Proud To Be Union!!

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          • #20
            Re: How to keep vertical lines plumb & square

            25% penetration is considered sufficient for joint retention as the bond is so much stronger...
            But as was said, MedGas requires 100-105% penetration so no voids are present for bacterial growth...
            We try for the full 100% on all brazed joints no matter if it is MedGas or water lines...

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            • #21
              Re: How to keep vertical lines plumb & square

              Originally posted by Aaron91 View Post
              How come a silver brazed joint only needs roughly 25% penetration for an acceptable joint?
              because silver solder it is much stronger then soft solder.

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              • #22
                Re: How to keep vertical lines plumb & square

                Thanks Mark and Bill.
                Proud To Be Union!!

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                • #23
                  Re: How to keep vertical lines plumb & square

                  Originally posted by mechga View Post
                  Anyone have any tips on keeping vertical lines with propress fittings plumb and square?
                  Solder 'em

                  or

                  wrap 'em with duct tape
                  ---------------
                  Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
                  ---------------
                  “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
                  ---------
                  "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
                  ---------
                  sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

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                  • #24
                    Re: How to keep vertical lines plumb & square

                    to get at the original question, the more plumb & square you hold the pipe and fitting while you crimp it the better your results. so you can either fasten the pipe plumb & square, have some one help hold it or grow another hand.

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                    • #25
                      Re: How to keep vertical lines plumb & square

                      Originally posted by Aaron91 View Post
                      How come a silver brazed joint only needs roughly 25% penetration for an acceptable joint?
                      The reason to heat the piping first is to get the metal to expand in the fitting then when the heat is concentrated on the fitting it is already preheated thus less discoloration and much easier for capillary attraction (action)

                      Considering 95 -5 solder has a tensile strength around 16,000 PSI and brazing hovers around 87,000 PSI, it lets the unskilled get away a lot easier thinking they do not have to have filler metal in the entire socket.


                      As one person said he never took a test or actually had his joints X rayed so they have no idea how much integrity their joint actually has


                      Some so called mechanics even put a bead on the outside of the fitting as insurance as they did not go to school (AWS) and learn the thinner joints are the strongest .

                      If in doubt contact the American Welding Society or the NFPA 54 but that would require effort and it is a lot easier to say you do not have to fill the inner space ( cop not looking I did not pass though a stop sign or close enough for government work) type of mentality or lack of

                      Various code books are amazing tools for the plumbing trade

                      The idea of the heat sink is to keep the heat on the pipe and going towards the fitting ( pre heating) less stratification of heat loss traveling away from the joint and then one doesn't have to "burn " the fittings or use a 5,900 deg F flame to get a filler metal flowing that only requires 1,200 -1,500 deg

                      The UA programs can and will explain the correct procedures as they have amazing class room and practical training.

                      Many journeymen knowing how strong a properly brazed joint is used to butt the ends of brass piping and brazed a thin joint that would hold considerable pressure.

                      Flagg flow used a ring that when the fitting was heated the filler metal would flow towards the back of the fitting showing the entire joint had flowed completely.

                      The USN had some pretty decent welding / brazing classes cause on a sub or ship one cannot afford to have a joint blow out because of vibration.

                      There is big difference between medical gas and domestic water supply and 1,500 PSI Super heated steam piping joints

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