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  • Non virgin abs

    this is from a 3'' waste line installed in 1983 when the building was built.

    it was an issue with the solid core abs pipe and manufacturer using non virgin abs resins in their formulas.

    as you can see the 3'' pipe split at the top of the glue joint.

    you can also see someone had made an attempt in trying to brush/ pour abs glue and red hot blue pvc glue onto the joint in an attempt to fix this mess.

    i replaced the fitting and banded the old to new to prevent a glue issue down the road.

    what years did the non virgin abs resins affect?

    rick.




    Attached Files
    phoebe it is

  • #2
    Re: Non virgin abs

    Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
    this is from a 3'' waste line installed in 1983 when the building was built.

    it was an issue with the solid core abs pipe and manufacturer using non virgin abs resins in their formulas.

    as you can see the 3'' pipe split at the top of the glue joint.

    you can also see someone had made an attempt in trying to brush/ pour abs glue and red hot blue pvc glue onto the joint in an attempt to fix this mess.

    i replaced the fitting and banded the old to new to prevent a glue issue down the road.

    what years did the non virgin abs resins affect?

    rick.


    This is a problem we saw a lot of many years ago so I am surprised this made it as long as it did. It's not really about non-virgin ABS resins it's about non-ABS fillers. The original standards required only virgin ABS could be used for making ABS pipe and fittings. At some point it was decided you could use non-virgin ABS as a filler material. The non-virgin ABS was a regrind of pipe and fittings which had shape imperfections. The problem came in when a company in Texas started taking old phones, computer cases, old tires and whatever else they could find grinding them up and selling them as non-virgin ABS. When the ABS cement (MEK) was used to assemble the pipe it caused the ABS to separate from the non-ABS materials leaving you with glue line cracks. There is nothing you can do but replace all of the bad pipe.

    As we discussed earlier on the phone I would check the build date of the building as the bad stuff was manufactured in 84 through 90. I wonder if it's possible your ground work is okay and the top out is bad?

    Mark
    "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

    I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Non virgin abs

      This seams to make sense.as to why I was seeing so many separations at "the glue line" after the Northridge quake.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Non virgin abs

        i know it makes no sense either. the pipe is stamped 83 and the building was finished and sold in 83.

        i can't figure why it affects some and not others.

        i've come across many of these time frame installations and it seems to affect a very small percentage of joints. well under 1%.

        all have the same tell tale signs. a small hairline split at the top of the glue line. fits like a puzzle.

        is it possible our california glue is not as hot as the rest of the country?

        rick.
        phoebe it is

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Non virgin abs

          Originally posted by plumber rick View Post
          i know it makes no sense either. The pipe is stamped 83 and the building was finished and sold in 83.

          I can't figure why it affects some and not others.

          I've come across many of these time frame installations and it seems to affect a very small percentage of joints. Well under 1%.

          All have the same tell tale signs. A small hairline split at the top of the glue line. Fits like a puzzle.

          Is it possible our california glue is not as hot as the rest of the country?

          Rick.
          ummm...
          You didn't hear a word I said did you?

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Non virgin abs

            Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
            ummm...
            You didn't hear a word I said did you?
            i did.

            what i should have said is

            i know, but it makes no sense.

            rick.
            phoebe it is

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Non virgin abs

              Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
              i know it makes no sense either. the pipe is stamped 83 and the building was finished and sold in 83.

              i can't figure why it affects some and not others.

              i've come across many of these time frame installations and it seems to affect a very small percentage of joints. well under 1%.

              all have the same tell tale signs. a small hairline split at the top of the glue line. fits like a puzzle.

              is it possible our california glue is not as hot as the rest of the country?

              rick.
              There was only one standard for ABS cement so it is all the same. It will affect all of the pipe which was made with the contaminated materials at some point. The manufacturers who used the contaminated materials were Polaris, Centaur, Phoenix, Gable and Apache. Their pipe was distributed to California, Oregon and Washington and that is where the bad stuff was discovered. I sat through the Plaintiff's Presentation which was held up by Stanford and there is quite a story behind the case.

              The Class Action settlement created a $100,000,000 fund to repair the homes. If your client qualifies they should be able to have all of their ABS in their home replaced including ensuing damages.

              Mark
              "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

              I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Non virgin abs

                Mark, are these the websites for the settlement?

                http://www.abspipes.com/index.html

                http://www.abspipessettlement.com/index.cfm


                http://www.seenoabspipefund.com/108a.htm
                ---------------
                Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
                ---------------
                “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
                ---------
                "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
                ---------
                sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Non virgin abs

                  Yes those appear to be the sites. A guy I've worked with over the last 20-years was the Plaintiff Expert on the case. The way the settlement work is he comes out (or someone from his company) to your house and gives you an estimate to replace the pipes. If you cannot find a plumber to do it for that price his company comes out and does it for the price he estimated. It's a very unusual settlement but he has sure gotten a lot of work out of it.

                  Mark
                  "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                  I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Non virgin abs

                    i wouldn't want to be the insurance company as i have at least 2 large complexes that are affected and a hand full of large homes.

                    i hate to think about the 1685 condos and townhomes i worked on during this period.

                    rick.
                    phoebe it is

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Non virgin abs

                      I TOO WORKED ON THOSE JOBS,
                      FROM 1989 THRU. 1998 MY CO. DID OVER 65
                      HOUSES IN THE SIMI VALLEY AREA, FOR ONE DEVELOPER, THE PLUMBER WHO DID THE ORIGINAL WORK STARTED DOING FORENSIC
                      PLUMBING CASES STARTING WITH THE DEFECTIVE ABS CASES,
                      MY CONTRACTOR CO. IS A LIC, GEN. BUILD, AND
                      PLUMBING CONSTRUCTION CO, THAT WAS ABLE TO HANDLE ALL PHASES OF THE REPAIR OR REPLACEMENT WORK AS NEEDED
                      JERRYMAC
                      E-MAILJERRYMAC777@GMAIL.COM
                      CALIF. LIC. PLBG,HEAT,DRAINS,ELECTRIC,WATER HEATER, BOILER, POOL AND SPA HEATER
                      FIRE SPRINKLER CONTRACTOR,
                      SINCE JAN. 1989

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Non virgin abs

                        Originally posted by JERRYMAC View Post
                        I TOO WORKED ON THOSE JOBS,
                        FROM 1989 THRU. 1998 MY CO. DID OVER 65
                        HOUSES IN THE SIMI VALLEY AREA, FOR ONE DEVELOPER, THE PLUMBER WHO DID THE ORIGINAL WORK STARTED DOING FORENSIC
                        PLUMBING CASES STARTING WITH THE DEFECTIVE ABS CASES,
                        MY CONTRACTOR CO. IS A LIC, GEN. BUILD, AND
                        PLUMBING CONSTRUCTION CO, THAT WAS ABLE TO HANDLE ALL PHASES OF THE REPAIR OR REPLACEMENT WORK AS NEEDED
                        Do you recall his name or the name of his company?

                        Mark
                        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Non virgin abs

                          here's the one from the other day when the homeowner googled the abs non virgin class action lawsuit and actually was reading my post from the forum

                          1.5'' abs picking up a tub/ shower on the second floor.

                          interesting thing is the coupling was joined to 2 different brands of abs. the white writing was the ruff in and the yellow writing/ leaker was the pipe used for trapping the tub after it was installed.

                          funny part was the painter did a good job hiding the leak and stained ceiling.

                          rick.




                          this is the repair that i did. i connected to the exisiting with bands to prevent anymore glue joint failures. the 45 was ok on the piece i removed even though it was the bad yellow stripe pipe.

                          Attached Files
                          Last edited by PLUMBER RICK; 04-17-2009, 03:15 AM.
                          phoebe it is

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Non virgin abs

                            Nice repair rick i havent run into many cracked glue joints in northen cali.. But the copper looks like the next to go flux looks like its starting to take its toll
                            Last edited by plumbworker; 04-19-2009, 01:12 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Non virgin abs

                              I also can recall doing ground work for many housing tracks in the
                              early 80's in Ventura County, Simi Valley, and Moorpark along the
                              new 118 fwy at the time. I only recall one time one of the other
                              journey man made the remark that the soil pipe feels "weak".

                              Later on I recall the local newspaper covering plumbing failers for
                              new plumbing systems. New home owners, and all the legal proceedings
                              that followed. Ugh I can recall in memory pictures of many "3", "2" soil stacks failing open exposed interior/ exterior walls people in occupied residences it was ugly. I sure bad soil pipe was found in floor slabs.

                              Comment

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