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RP 330 ProPress tool info

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  • #16
    Re: RP 330 ProPress tool info

    http://www.plumbingzone.com/f2/psis-...ds-force-6665/

    Enough said.
    Buy cheap, buy twice.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: RP 330 ProPress tool info

      Originally posted by gear junkie View Post
      Sorry Ben I read 156 posts and still did not see where they did a proper test. TM was a little too stuck on water PSI which had nothing to do with the force to pop the cap off. In addition I suspect the 1/2" pipe would freeze much faster than the 3/4" pipe. Either way I suspect the pressure against the cap was much higher than it would every see under it's intended service.

      Mark
      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: RP 330 ProPress tool info

        Originally posted by gear junkie View Post
        thanks ben, after reading 5 pages of 16 pages of post, i realize how many of those guys there are totally clueless about pressure/ psi. even when there were a couple of guys doing their best to explain it. some people just don't get it and never will.

        now back to the test. what pressure was the cap tested to when it blew off? couldn't open up the links.

        viega is approved to 200# and test to 600#. at what point did it blow?

        look over marks links and tables. the entire country was basically 50/50 solder prior to 1986.

        rick.
        phoebe it is

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: RP 330 ProPress tool info

          Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
          Sorry Ben I read 156 posts and still did not see where they did a proper test. TM was a little too stuck on water PSI which had nothing to do with the force to pop the cap off. In addition I suspect the 1/2" pipe would freeze much faster than the 3/4" pipe. Either way I suspect the pressure against the cap was much higher than it would every see under it's intended service.

          Mark
          thanks mark. i never saw your post until i posted mine.

          scarry that me and you think alike

          maybe that's why you like joey as much as i

          rick.
          phoebe it is

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: RP 330 ProPress tool info

            You two got too hung up on Master's comments. I'll agree that him and others didn't understand pressure.

            I didn't want to post the pic as it wasn't mine but here's the test.

            -3/4x1/2x3/4 sweat tee. On the branch is about a 10" nipple with a valve.
            -on the 3/4 run is a 10" nipple with a sweat cap.
            -on the 1/2 run is a 10" nipple with a propress cap.
            -Airgap filled the entire contraption and froze it. The propress cap pushed off.

            I saw that pic and that was enough for me. The other 5 pages were a waste of time.
            Buy cheap, buy twice.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: RP 330 ProPress tool info

              I would be a believer if they used 3/4 Tee all the way around. Using a 1/2 propress against a 3/4 cap is not a good test as I pointed out to AirGap. Also if he put the caps on then filled it how do we know he got all the air out of both branch lines? One other point is the 3/4 cap has more surface area than a 1/2 cap so it will be stronger than a 1/2 cap any day. If they redo the test using all 1/2 or all 3/4 I would be real happy.

              My friend Mike and I talked this test over and the way to ensure you do not have any air in the branch lines is to leave the ProPress cap off stand the tee up fill it from the propress side while the branch tee valve is closed and once the water gets to the top then press on the cap. Now you can flip the tee on its side open the valve and top off the water.
              Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
              A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
              Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
              Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: RP 330 ProPress tool info

                Rick, no one uses or should be using 50/50 anymore, it has not been allowed long before ProPress was approved. I agree ProPress works and works real good. As for the freezing test they did on the other site, my argument is no matter what you use if it freezes it will break. If they all are afraid of freezing and want something that can withstand freezing better than copper put in galvanized pipe.

                Now for your arguments about using ProPress during running or dripping water. What did plumbers do before ProPress? The ones that did not trust compression joints froze the line. But i do agree that pressing a fitting on is a lot quicker and works great when you have a time limit.

                As for bad solder joints, I have seen some careless pressed joints. (I made one in a tight quarters) I also bring up the 4" 90ยบ that blew off at a school that was being built out here by me. I also learned they had a few other fittings blow off. I bump into some of the plumbers that where on that job site, and they all where unhappy with the performance of the system. They where telling me they had to make sure the pipe was within tolerances with a micrometer to ensure that they are getting good joints.

                Now I know of another school that went up all they used was the ProPress there to ensure they do not have any leaks they pump up the system with 150 PSI of air and have a guy go through the whole system listening for leaks and checking each joint with a bubble solution looking for tiny little bubbles. So with this knowledge I am still a bit leery about it, but I like it enough to help me out on my service jobs that I am considering getting a system. But for any new plumbing I will stick to the old fashioned solder joints.
                Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
                A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
                Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
                Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: RP 330 ProPress tool info

                  i really don't see the point of the test. what was the actual pressure exerted on the cap when it blew.

                  a hydrostatic test would be a better test than freezing the pipe in the freezer.

                  i would be safe to say that it held a lot more than 600 psi on the line.

                  to help others understand psi. here is a prime example in real every day plumbers terms.

                  when testing a 4 story building. all the first floor waste lines are at the same approximate pressure. roughly 19# of static head pressure. of course with water it's impossible to get an even 5# that's all that is required.

                  it's the 4'' plugs for the toilets that have to be properly strapped down with either plumbers dynamite, dollar plugs and a plate strap/ 2x4 across the top. you don't have to be worried about the 2'' tubs/ shower, 1.5'' lavs and kitchen and laundry jim caps. why same static head pressure plus or minus 1#

                  it's the water pressure / static head in the pipe that is applying the force over the entire surface area. a 4'' plug has much more surface area than a 2'' plug. roughly 4 times the area. so for every 1 square inch of cap, you're getting 19# of push off force. 4'' jim cap has roughly 12.566 square inches. 19 x 12.566 = 238.754 pounds of force pushing that cap off. while a 2'' cap has 3.14 square inches x 19# = 59.66 # of pushing force.

                  simple math 101

                  now back to the freezer test. what was the force applied to the cap?

                  rick.
                  phoebe it is

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: RP 330 ProPress tool info

                    To add to your post Ron, I would like to see 10 equal pipes without any branches, assembled in the manner you suggest. The pipes would then be set perfectly level and just above the freezer bottom. If the viega caps failed 10 for 10 you would have a more convincing argument.

                    Mark
                    "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                    I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: RP 330 ProPress tool info

                      i guess i could make up a hydrostatic pump with my jetter. i don't own a hydrostatic test pump. but if propress/ viega test pressure rating passed the 600# test from 0-250 degrees, i doubt that anyone will have to worry about those extremes.

                      there is always going to be a link that fails first. that's why it's called the weakest link. but when the weakest link exceeds the test pressures and the test pressure exceeds any realistic working pressure we would come across in the real plumbing world, why worry

                      there are plenty of pipe materials for every application. highest pressure test i remember doing was 5000# at a waste water lab.

                      rick.
                      phoebe it is

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: RP 330 ProPress tool info

                        Oh no, say it ain't so. There is a tool that Rick does not own?

                        Mark
                        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: RP 330 ProPress tool info

                          Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                          Oh no, say it ain't so. There is a tool that Rick does not own?

                          Mark
                          days not over yet

                          rick.
                          phoebe it is

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: RP 330 ProPress tool info

                            Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                            Thanks for finding the links Mark. I'm having a hard time finding an "apples to apples" comparison though.

                            The copper site is a simple enough table. I have to say that for the discussion that the 50-50 section does not apply at all however. Typically the 95-5 or other approved connections.

                            So, for example, I can find easily on the copper site that for 1/8" through 1" with 95-5 that the MAXIMUM WORKING PSI at 100 degrees F is 1090 psi.

                            But I was unable to find the MAXIMUM WORKING PSI for the ProPress system at 100 degrees F up to 1".

                            Did I miss it or is it in another table somewhere?

                            Remember, the temperature, sizes, and designation (Working PSI or Test to failure) MUST be the same or it is not a comparison at all.

                            Thanks.

                            J.C.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: RP 330 ProPress tool info

                              I found this on the Viega site.

                              How do ProPress joints hold up to freezing temperatures?
                              Copper water systems, both soldered and pressed, should not be allowed to freeze. When water freezes it expands and will damage the tubing or the system.

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