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  • #16
    Re: propress ball valves in record time.

    Iron Ranger
    I like the way you talk. But, I don't like your Minnesota weather. Your master's test sounds like a real b buster. Good on ya. Nothing like separating the wheat from the shaff.
    BTW: My journeymen can design to code as well as design specifications on the fly. If they get stuck, they call. I don't get a lot of calls other then to ask questions that are not clear from the information they have at hand. If they couldn't do that they wouldn't be working for me. That's why I call them the 10%. The other 90%, good riddance.
    As a qualification for a master's license, I think sizing and iso drawing a couple of 5 story buildings is a good idea. However, in the real world (at least in CA), such skill is going by the wayside with BIM and 3D Cad pushing to the forefront. The field employees are reduced to installers of prefabbed assemblies. Paint by the numbers, if you please. So, for a while (until they retire or more likely replaced by less expensive workers) many high rise have a workforce that's overqualified for what they are doing.
    Speaking of your master's test (which I congratulate you on passing on the first try), be thankful you weren't required to make a couple of wiped lead joints.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: propress ball valves in record time.

      I agree with Plumbus in regards to skill removal. Don't care what field of business you are in, make it faster & easier, then a broader range of people are available to do it.

      When a broader range of people are available to do something, salaries & the respect for what's being done always decreases. Most have heard someone that is NOT a plumber say..."I love PEX. Got me some crimpers on sale at Lowe's and done my remodel myself. Anybody can do this stuff."

      Your copper press fittings are just the next evolution in this faster/easier process.

      I'm not totally against press fitting situations. No way the repair done in this thread could be done faster soldering. It's nuts for someone to try and get you to compare it. I find the Ridgid Road Show Press vs. Solder lil' demonstration nothing but insulting to people's intelligence. Many commercial situations, drain downs, bad valves & decent copper-it can be an asset. But to say the repair at the start of this thread could not be done without it, or to even insinuate it, is a lie. It just would have taken longer.

      However, you are making available the work to any minimum wage person with about 30 minutes of training. Which can seem great as long as you are running the show. But if one day you elect to leave your business & pursue a job with a larger business, university, hospital...whatever, don't be surprised if the wages are pretty low. After all, the cleaning guy can do double duty and run water lines now.

      P.S. I own two press tools. Just gotta' get me some Middle & High School kids now to run all the water. Do like the big boys and call it an "Internship".

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: propress ball valves in record time.

        Almost forgot to ask.

        What brand of valves did you use? Better or equal to Viega? I ask 'cause they don't look like Viega. Could be though. Don't always have Viega readily available here. Thought about ordering some or good alternative brands.

        Thanks for any information.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: propress ball valves in record time.

          Well that's what would happen if it were legal around here but in Minnesota and many other states around here you can't hire someone off the street to run water lines unless you want to lose your license.

          Originally posted by BobsPlumbing View Post
          I agree with Plumbus in regards to skill removal. Don't care what field of business you are in, make it faster & easier, then a broader range of people are available to do it.

          When a broader range of people are available to do something, salaries & the respect for what's being done always decreases. Most have heard someone that is NOT a plumber say..."I love PEX. Got me some crimpers on sale at Lowe's and done my remodel myself. Anybody can do this stuff."

          Your copper press fittings are just the next evolution in this faster/easier process.

          I'm not totally against press fitting situations. No way the repair done in this thread could be done faster soldering. It's nuts for someone to try and get you to compare it. I find the Ridgid Road Show Press vs. Solder lil' demonstration nothing but insulting to people's intelligence. Many commercial situations, drain downs, bad valves & decent copper-it can be an asset. But to say the repair at the start of this thread could not be done without it, or to even insinuate it, is a lie. It just would have taken longer.

          However, you are making available the work to any minimum wage person with about 30 minutes of training. Which can seem great as long as you are running the show. But if one day you elect to leave your business & pursue a job with a larger business, university, hospital...whatever, don't be surprised if the wages are pretty low. After all, the cleaning guy can do double duty and run water lines now.

          P.S. I own two press tools. Just gotta' get me some Middle & High School kids now to run all the water. Do like the big boys and call it an "Internship".

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: propress ball valves in record time.

            Originally posted by ironranger View Post
            Well that's what would happen if it were legal around here but in Minnesota and many other states around here you can't hire someone off the street to run water lines unless you want to lose your license.
            Can't be policed and won't be policed in the majority of the U.S. So it seems inevitable.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: propress ball valves in record time.

              I do miss the Northern Ca. weather but I also love the seasons here, and the snow for about a month. Then it gets old. But hey we do have ice fishing! Never had to do a lead joint thank goodness but the test was hard. I wasn't sure I even passed it. The people that grade the test are actually State inspectors and they are strict.

              Originally posted by Plumbus View Post
              Iron Ranger
              I like the way you talk. But, I don't like your Minnesota weather. Your master's test sounds like a real b buster. Good on ya. Nothing like separating the wheat from the shaff.
              BTW: My journeymen can design to code as well as design specifications on the fly. If they get stuck, they call. I don't get a lot of calls other then to ask questions that are not clear from the information they have at hand. If they couldn't do that they wouldn't be working for me. That's why I call them the 10%. The other 90%, good riddance.
              As a qualification for a master's license, I think sizing and iso drawing a couple of 5 story buildings is a good idea. However, in the real world (at least in CA), such skill is going by the wayside with BIM and 3D Cad pushing to the forefront. The field employees are reduced to installers of prefabbed assemblies. Paint by the numbers, if you please. So, for a while (until they retire or more likely replaced by less expensive workers) many high rise have a workforce that's overqualified for what they are doing.
              Speaking of your master's test (which I congratulate you on passing on the first try), be thankful you weren't required to make a couple of wiped lead joints.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: propress ball valves in record time.

                We need a National standard. Use one of the States that have a strict system as the example and make it the same across the board. Make it the same code, same testing standards. You would be surprised at what happens. We take great pride in what we have and we don't allow the hacks in. The licensed plumbers around here stand together and we turn in anyone who's breaking the law stealing our trade. When a call is made while a hack job is in progress the "license police" do show up.

                Originally posted by BobsPlumbing View Post
                Can't be policed and won't be policed in the majority of the U.S. So it seems inevitable.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: propress ball valves in record time.

                  Originally posted by ironranger View Post
                  We need a National standard. Use one of the States that have a strict system as the example and make it the same across the board. Make it the same code, same testing standards. .
                  Same code, eventually (hopefully in our lifetime) As for strict licensing, never happen unless it's dumbed down to the lowest common denominator.
                  BTW: IR What part of Northern CA did you used to call home?
                  Last edited by Plumbus; 10-21-2012, 07:20 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: propress ball valves in record time.

                    Sonoma County, though did work a lot in Marin County and S.F.

                    Originally posted by Plumbus View Post
                    Same code, eventually (hopefully in our lifetime) Asd for strict licensing, never happen unless it's dumbed down to the lowest common denominator.
                    BTW: IR What part of Northern CA did you used to call home?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: propress ball valves in record time.

                      Originally posted by ironranger View Post
                      Sonoma County, though did work a lot in Marin County and S.F.
                      Local 38? Do you miss the wineries?

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: propress ball valves in record time.

                        these valves are red and white lead free full port ball valves.

                        the viega with metal handles came in anywhere from 5-10% higher based on size.

                        rick.
                        phoebe it is

                        Comment

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