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  • propress ball valves in record time.

    had a contract job that required cutting in new ball valves in an occupied condo building. 28 valves from 1/2''- 1.25'' . 2 - 1/2'', 12- 3/4'', 9-1'', 5- 1.25'' valves.

    pipes are in the garage ceiling with 4 stories above us to try and drain down. not an issue with propress and a wrecking crew of 4 plumbing contractors. 3 propress guns and a milwaukee electric tubing cutter as needed.

    under 3 hours and had the water back on. only 1 dripper as the top half of a propress coupling was not crimped. easy to fix as all i did was crimp it with the water still dripping.

    rick.



    some of the valves had dezincafied.



    1/2 the valves had some wiggle room.



    easy as cut ream and insert and pull the trigger.



    big thanks to my new little helper / bens son.

    rick.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by PLUMBER RICK; 10-20-2012, 08:07 PM.
    phoebe it is

  • #2
    Re: propress ball valves in record time.

    Is Ben a keeper?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: propress ball valves in record time.

      I wish i was close to help but it looks like you didnt need me
      Lets see what the Pro Press critics have to say how they could have done the same thing
      Charlie

      My seek the peek fundraiser page
      http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


      http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

      new work pictures 12/09
      http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: propress ball valves in record time.

        Originally posted by Plumbus View Post
        Is Ben a keeper?
        ben's been a keeper since day 1.

        it's his 9 year old son that i need to recruit.

        had another plumbing contractor who showed up to learn and watch propress in action. he was so impressed he stuck around and joined in the fun.

        looks like another tool going off the shelf.

        rick.
        phoebe it is

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: propress ball valves in record time.

          Most all the plumbers in my area are now using Propress. Well maybe except for one who's very old school and is still holding out. Propress is just the next step in the evolution of our trade. Rick I've never had a PP joint only get half crimped How did that happen? Which tool? I had a 3/4 jaw break in half once and didn't have a back up at the time, not a good situation. I now have two propress tools.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: propress ball valves in record time.

            to clarify, the 1'' coupling was crimped at the lower joint, but somehow not crimped/ missed at the top joint.

            ben might know why

            good news is they have the smart connect feature that allows for a telltale drip if not crimped. the older original fittings would not drip. in this case there was no way for the joint to have pulled apart, so if it wasn't the smart connect, it could have gone unnoticed with no real harm.

            rick.
            phoebe it is

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: propress ball valves in record time.

              This may be inappropriate, but I can't help it. If it offends any of my esteemed colleagues who may read it, I extend my heart felt apologizes. If I didn't feel so strongly about this trend (which I've been following since the early '60's as the son of a plumber) I probably would have just read the contents from this thread and left things as they are. Or, I could have placed this in the Off Topic category. But, I really feel strongly about the dumbing down of our industry and the ongoing lack of respect we engender.

              Propress and other innovative tools equate to progress (think cordless technology, for example). Unfortunately, these labor saving advances are breaking down the competitive advantages that highly skilled workers in the plumbing industry have enjoyed since the days of lead pipes. Let's face it, the two edged sword of technology is making it easier and easier to install plumbing systems. I don't want to sound like a Ludite, but I can't help thinking that if I were Ben I'd seriously be steering my son towards a higher education track. I realize that there are non monetary rewards to what we do, but competing in a blue collar world with the ongoing (and never ending) downward pressure on remuneration, is hard enough for all of us. I don't see why anyone would want subject their progeny to a life of hard work that isn't properly rewarded or especially appreciated by the general population.
              Last edited by Plumbus; 10-21-2012, 11:47 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: propress ball valves in record time.

                I firmly believe there will always be a need for a plumber no matter how simple technology makes it...it just can't be outsourced to another country. I fully plan on having my son ride with me until he leaves the house. BUT, I don't plan on him being a plumber forever. There are many aspects of plumbing that relate to being successful such as moving with a purpose, timeliness, attention to detail (I missed that joint), hard work equals good pay, be an active participant in the process, etc. I and others could go on with more examples. I believe the general populace is scared of hard work. I'm really trying to ensure my son is never part of that group. I want him to do a profession and strive to be the best at it....I really wouldn't care if it was mcdonalds as long as he was trying to be the best burger flipper. Note I didn't say he was happy with being a burger flipper but trying to be the best burger flipper. I believe real long term satisfaction comes from hard work while immediate gratification comes from easy work....through plumbing and other things, I hope to teach him the difference.

                My last point, I believe ambition and persaverance are the 2 qualities that tie successful people together. Education imo is the last quality. BTW, good job on the thread drift. Even wrangled me into it.
                Buy cheap, buy twice.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: propress ball valves in record time.

                  I have to disagree. I don't believe Propress makes anything easier, it just makes it faster. It's just as easy for me to clean a piece of copper, wipe some flux on it and then solder, it just takes longer. There will always be progress and changes in our trade as well as all the other trades. We've all seen the handy hacks work, their attempt at professionalism is a joke. No matter how we install the piping there will always be a need for professionalism. Besides the handy hacks and most customers won't be buying these tools. I install pex instead of copper in most cases, I use propress when working on existing copper. It doesn't make it easier, I'm still wiped out at the end of the day. We still need to know how the systems work, install according to code etc. Nope it's not easier, but damn am I fast these days and because we charge a flat rate and don't work by the hour we're more profitable. This isn't just about the plumbing trade, it's pure business. I run a business for profit and I'll do what I think is best for my business and not because it's easier.



                  Originally posted by Plumbus View Post
                  This may be inappropriate, but I can't help it. If it offends any of my esteemed colleagues who may read it, I extend my heart felt apologizes. If I didn't feel so strongly about this trend (which I've been following since the early '60's as the son of a plumber) I probably would have just read the contents from this thread and left things as they are. Or, I could have placed this in the Off Topic category. But, I really feel strongly about the dumbing down of our industry and the ongoing lack of respect we engender.

                  Propress and other innovative tools equate to progress (think cordless technology, for example). Unfortunately, these labor saving advances are breaking down the competitive advantages that highly skilled workers in the plumbing industry have enjoyed since the days of lead pipes. Let's face it, the two edged sword of technology is making it easier and easier to install plumbing systems. I don't want to sound like a Ludite, but I can't help thinking that if I were Ben I'd seriously be steering my son towards a higher education track. I realize that there are non monetary rewards to what we do, but competing in a blue collar world with the ongoing (and never ending) downward pressure on remuneration, is hard enough for all of us. I don't see why anyone would want subject their progeny to a life of hard work that isn't properly rewarded or especially appreciated by the general population.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: propress ball valves in record time.

                    Originally posted by ironranger View Post
                    i have to disagree. I don't believe propress makes anything easier, it just makes it faster. It's just as easy for me to clean a piece of copper, wipe some flux on it and then solder, it just takes longer. There will always be progress and changes in our trade as well as all the other trades. We've all seen the handy hacks work, their attempt at professionalism is a joke. No matter how we install the piping there will always be a need for professionalism. Besides the handy hacks and most customers won't be buying these tools. I install pex instead of copper in most cases, i use propress when working on existing copper. It doesn't make it easier, i'm still wiped out at the end of the day. We still need to know how the systems work, install according to code etc. Nope it's not easier, but damn am i fast these days and because we charge a flat rate and don't work by the hour we're more profitable. This isn't just about the plumbing trade, it's pure business. I run a business for profit and i'll do what i think is best for my business and not because it's easier.
                    well said. Yes, i'm shouting from the roof top!!!!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: propress ball valves in record time.

                      there's progress in every trade and every industry. if there wasn't progress, we would be paying a heck of a lot more to get the product / project compleated.

                      look at all the excess labor involved with old school.

                      when i started out in the trade as a union plumber, we were not allowed to use all thread rod. talk about a union scam to generate extra labor force. we had to thread steel rod for our hangers.

                      rick.
                      Last edited by PLUMBER RICK; 10-21-2012, 04:56 PM. Reason: involved
                      phoebe it is

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: propress ball valves in record time.

                        Ben
                        Your head is is definitely on straight. The qualities you wish to inculcate your son with probably will be successful not so much for the message (worthy as it is) but more for the fact that the fruit generally falls close to the tree.

                        As for our trade, as for construction in general, I don't see it as the gateway into the middle class that it once was. It partly due to the collapse of the union movement and partly to globalization. I know they can't off shore the jobs, but that isn't stopping them from on shoring the workers for those jobs.
                        Iron Ranger,
                        I agree that someone involved with the process better have his stuff together or things will turn to shite in a hurry. But, as Henry Ford and other's did a century ago by breaking the process down to it's simplest parts, you can squeeze an awful lot of work out of very unskilled, low paid workers (hungry for work in El Norte). Plus, you can train them on the costomer's dime. And, hopefully, they don't screw the pooch too often to wipe out the competitive advantage you have over the guy who pays a living wage to a real craftsman.
                        Perhaps the picture I've painted doesn't translate to Minnesota, but it sure holds true for California. Let me say that highly trained, hard working, honest and engaged people can still thrive here, it's just getting harder by the day to convince the public that quality pays.
                        Ben, I don't think that the average young person is scared so much by hard physical work as he is stigmatized by it. Brain washing by the media and popular culture haven't helped. And, God knows, this generation of mommas don't want their babies to grow up to be turd herders.

                        "There is no question that our health has improved spectacularly
                        in the past century. One thing seems certain: it did not happen
                        because of medicine, or medical science, or even the presence of doctors.
                        "Much of the credit should go to the plumbers and engineers
                        of the western world. The contamination of drinking water by
                        human feces was at one time the greatest cause of human disease
                        and death for us...(but) when the plumbers and sanitary engineers
                        had done their work in the construction of our cities, these
                        diseases began to vanish. "

                        - Lewis Thomas (medical researcher and essayist)

                        "An excellent plumber is infinitely more admirable than an incompetent philosopher.
                        The society that scorns excellence in plumbing just because plumbing is a humble activity,
                        and tolerates shoddiness in philosophy because it is an exalted activity,
                        will have neither good plumbing nor good philosophy.
                        Neither its pipes nor its philosophy will hold water."

                        - John William Gardner

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: propress ball valves in record time.

                          Plumbus you're correct that it's not a problem here in Minnesota because we have very strict licensing and testing laws which are enforced as do many other states. We don't have companies here sending out idiots to do the job of skilled craftsmen. We can't just hire someone off the street and send them to a customers home to do any work, it's against the law. Apprentices or helpers here in Minnesota can not work on their own, they have to work with a Journeyman or Master plumber at all times. After they've built up enough hours they can then test for their journeyman license and if they pass they can then work on their own though only under a licensed Master Plumber. After the journeyman plumber has enough documented and proven hours he can then test for his Master License which at that time and only at that time can he become an owner. Take a guess at how many plumbers in California could actually pass a Master Plumbers test based on their current knowledge? How many could actually size water, waste, gas, etc. for a five story commercial building as per code using fixture units on paper within the time for the test? Then when you're done with that draw out an isometric drawing and size it for another building?
                          Besides that you still have the written section. If I had to guess I would say 99.9% could not pass it. After being licensed in Ca. for years I could not pass this test without taking a few weekends of classes from the PHCC here in Mn. Luckily I had a wonderful teacher and after studying for hundreds of hours, drawing isometrics, being very frustrated for weeks and asking myself what do I need this for? I did pass it the first time and it opened my eyes big time. I had no idea what I had been missing all those years.
                          The problem you speak of is not a trade problem, it's a California problem and I agree it's a very big problem. The California laws and the written test is a joke. I didn't even have two years under my belt back then when I took the test and passed it in Ca. They don't do background checks or verify anything. You can only blame Ca. for this problem, not our trade.
                          The new tools and joining methods are a normal progression of our trade and it's always been like this, things change. But when someone is legally sending out dummies with little or no knowledge then who's fault is that?
                          Last edited by ironranger; 10-21-2012, 03:45 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Re: propress ball valves in record time.

                            Funny, just the opposite in the auto repair Buss. 1951 chevy ,I could sit in the fender well and change plugs,points ,ect. Today folks don't even know what they're looking at under the hood !
                            I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

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                            • #15
                              Re: propress ball valves in record time.

                              Rick, looks good. I have had a missed pressed joint here and there in my time. I love my RP100, it comes in real handy when draining down the system is near imposable. Till this day I have a customer that praises me and my RP100, he tells everyone about the day he had a property with a burst 1" pipe and no shutoff to be found in the unit. So I came in with my Milwaukee electric tubing cutter and cut above the burst and pressed on a valve while the water was still live. After the emergency we found the units shut off in a drop ceiling.
                              Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
                              A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
                              Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
                              Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

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