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  • PLUMBER RICK
    started a topic propress ball valves in record time.

    propress ball valves in record time.

    had a contract job that required cutting in new ball valves in an occupied condo building. 28 valves from 1/2''- 1.25'' . 2 - 1/2'', 12- 3/4'', 9-1'', 5- 1.25'' valves.

    pipes are in the garage ceiling with 4 stories above us to try and drain down. not an issue with propress and a wrecking crew of 4 plumbing contractors. 3 propress guns and a milwaukee electric tubing cutter as needed.

    under 3 hours and had the water back on. only 1 dripper as the top half of a propress coupling was not crimped. easy to fix as all i did was crimp it with the water still dripping.

    rick.



    some of the valves had dezincafied.



    1/2 the valves had some wiggle room.



    easy as cut ream and insert and pull the trigger.



    big thanks to my new little helper / bens son.

    rick.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by PLUMBER RICK; 10-20-2012, 07:07 PM.

  • PLUMBER RICK
    replied
    Re: propress ball valves in record time.

    these valves are red and white lead free full port ball valves.

    the viega with metal handles came in anywhere from 5-10% higher based on size.

    rick.

    Leave a comment:


  • Plumbus
    replied
    Re: propress ball valves in record time.

    Originally posted by ironranger View Post
    Sonoma County, though did work a lot in Marin County and S.F.
    Local 38? Do you miss the wineries?

    Leave a comment:


  • ironranger
    replied
    Re: propress ball valves in record time.

    Sonoma County, though did work a lot in Marin County and S.F.

    Originally posted by Plumbus View Post
    Same code, eventually (hopefully in our lifetime) Asd for strict licensing, never happen unless it's dumbed down to the lowest common denominator.
    BTW: IR What part of Northern CA did you used to call home?

    Leave a comment:


  • Plumbus
    replied
    Re: propress ball valves in record time.

    Originally posted by ironranger View Post
    We need a National standard. Use one of the States that have a strict system as the example and make it the same across the board. Make it the same code, same testing standards. .
    Same code, eventually (hopefully in our lifetime) As for strict licensing, never happen unless it's dumbed down to the lowest common denominator.
    BTW: IR What part of Northern CA did you used to call home?
    Last edited by Plumbus; 10-21-2012, 06:20 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • ironranger
    replied
    Re: propress ball valves in record time.

    We need a National standard. Use one of the States that have a strict system as the example and make it the same across the board. Make it the same code, same testing standards. You would be surprised at what happens. We take great pride in what we have and we don't allow the hacks in. The licensed plumbers around here stand together and we turn in anyone who's breaking the law stealing our trade. When a call is made while a hack job is in progress the "license police" do show up.

    Originally posted by BobsPlumbing View Post
    Can't be policed and won't be policed in the majority of the U.S. So it seems inevitable.

    Leave a comment:


  • ironranger
    replied
    Re: propress ball valves in record time.

    I do miss the Northern Ca. weather but I also love the seasons here, and the snow for about a month. Then it gets old. But hey we do have ice fishing! Never had to do a lead joint thank goodness but the test was hard. I wasn't sure I even passed it. The people that grade the test are actually State inspectors and they are strict.

    Originally posted by Plumbus View Post
    Iron Ranger
    I like the way you talk. But, I don't like your Minnesota weather. Your master's test sounds like a real b buster. Good on ya. Nothing like separating the wheat from the shaff.
    BTW: My journeymen can design to code as well as design specifications on the fly. If they get stuck, they call. I don't get a lot of calls other then to ask questions that are not clear from the information they have at hand. If they couldn't do that they wouldn't be working for me. That's why I call them the 10%. The other 90%, good riddance.
    As a qualification for a master's license, I think sizing and iso drawing a couple of 5 story buildings is a good idea. However, in the real world (at least in CA), such skill is going by the wayside with BIM and 3D Cad pushing to the forefront. The field employees are reduced to installers of prefabbed assemblies. Paint by the numbers, if you please. So, for a while (until they retire or more likely replaced by less expensive workers) many high rise have a workforce that's overqualified for what they are doing.
    Speaking of your master's test (which I congratulate you on passing on the first try), be thankful you weren't required to make a couple of wiped lead joints.

    Leave a comment:


  • BobsPlumbing
    replied
    Re: propress ball valves in record time.

    Originally posted by ironranger View Post
    Well that's what would happen if it were legal around here but in Minnesota and many other states around here you can't hire someone off the street to run water lines unless you want to lose your license.
    Can't be policed and won't be policed in the majority of the U.S. So it seems inevitable.

    Leave a comment:


  • ironranger
    replied
    Re: propress ball valves in record time.

    Well that's what would happen if it were legal around here but in Minnesota and many other states around here you can't hire someone off the street to run water lines unless you want to lose your license.

    Originally posted by BobsPlumbing View Post
    I agree with Plumbus in regards to skill removal. Don't care what field of business you are in, make it faster & easier, then a broader range of people are available to do it.

    When a broader range of people are available to do something, salaries & the respect for what's being done always decreases. Most have heard someone that is NOT a plumber say..."I love PEX. Got me some crimpers on sale at Lowe's and done my remodel myself. Anybody can do this stuff."

    Your copper press fittings are just the next evolution in this faster/easier process.

    I'm not totally against press fitting situations. No way the repair done in this thread could be done faster soldering. It's nuts for someone to try and get you to compare it. I find the Ridgid Road Show Press vs. Solder lil' demonstration nothing but insulting to people's intelligence. Many commercial situations, drain downs, bad valves & decent copper-it can be an asset. But to say the repair at the start of this thread could not be done without it, or to even insinuate it, is a lie. It just would have taken longer.

    However, you are making available the work to any minimum wage person with about 30 minutes of training. Which can seem great as long as you are running the show. But if one day you elect to leave your business & pursue a job with a larger business, university, hospital...whatever, don't be surprised if the wages are pretty low. After all, the cleaning guy can do double duty and run water lines now.

    P.S. I own two press tools. Just gotta' get me some Middle & High School kids now to run all the water. Do like the big boys and call it an "Internship".

    Leave a comment:


  • BobsPlumbing
    replied
    Re: propress ball valves in record time.

    Almost forgot to ask.

    What brand of valves did you use? Better or equal to Viega? I ask 'cause they don't look like Viega. Could be though. Don't always have Viega readily available here. Thought about ordering some or good alternative brands.

    Thanks for any information.

    Leave a comment:


  • BobsPlumbing
    replied
    Re: propress ball valves in record time.

    I agree with Plumbus in regards to skill removal. Don't care what field of business you are in, make it faster & easier, then a broader range of people are available to do it.

    When a broader range of people are available to do something, salaries & the respect for what's being done always decreases. Most have heard someone that is NOT a plumber say..."I love PEX. Got me some crimpers on sale at Lowe's and done my remodel myself. Anybody can do this stuff."

    Your copper press fittings are just the next evolution in this faster/easier process.

    I'm not totally against press fitting situations. No way the repair done in this thread could be done faster soldering. It's nuts for someone to try and get you to compare it. I find the Ridgid Road Show Press vs. Solder lil' demonstration nothing but insulting to people's intelligence. Many commercial situations, drain downs, bad valves & decent copper-it can be an asset. But to say the repair at the start of this thread could not be done without it, or to even insinuate it, is a lie. It just would have taken longer.

    However, you are making available the work to any minimum wage person with about 30 minutes of training. Which can seem great as long as you are running the show. But if one day you elect to leave your business & pursue a job with a larger business, university, hospital...whatever, don't be surprised if the wages are pretty low. After all, the cleaning guy can do double duty and run water lines now.

    P.S. I own two press tools. Just gotta' get me some Middle & High School kids now to run all the water. Do like the big boys and call it an "Internship".

    Leave a comment:


  • Plumbus
    replied
    Re: propress ball valves in record time.

    Iron Ranger
    I like the way you talk. But, I don't like your Minnesota weather. Your master's test sounds like a real b buster. Good on ya. Nothing like separating the wheat from the shaff.
    BTW: My journeymen can design to code as well as design specifications on the fly. If they get stuck, they call. I don't get a lot of calls other then to ask questions that are not clear from the information they have at hand. If they couldn't do that they wouldn't be working for me. That's why I call them the 10%. The other 90%, good riddance.
    As a qualification for a master's license, I think sizing and iso drawing a couple of 5 story buildings is a good idea. However, in the real world (at least in CA), such skill is going by the wayside with BIM and 3D Cad pushing to the forefront. The field employees are reduced to installers of prefabbed assemblies. Paint by the numbers, if you please. So, for a while (until they retire or more likely replaced by less expensive workers) many high rise have a workforce that's overqualified for what they are doing.
    Speaking of your master's test (which I congratulate you on passing on the first try), be thankful you weren't required to make a couple of wiped lead joints.

    Leave a comment:


  • SewerRatz
    replied
    Re: propress ball valves in record time.

    Rick, looks good. I have had a missed pressed joint here and there in my time. I love my RP100, it comes in real handy when draining down the system is near imposable. Till this day I have a customer that praises me and my RP100, he tells everyone about the day he had a property with a burst 1" pipe and no shutoff to be found in the unit. So I came in with my Milwaukee electric tubing cutter and cut above the burst and pressed on a valve while the water was still live. After the emergency we found the units shut off in a drop ceiling.

    Leave a comment:


  • toolaholic
    replied
    Re: propress ball valves in record time.

    Funny, just the opposite in the auto repair Buss. 1951 chevy ,I could sit in the fender well and change plugs,points ,ect. Today folks don't even know what they're looking at under the hood !

    Leave a comment:


  • ironranger
    replied
    Re: propress ball valves in record time.

    Plumbus you're correct that it's not a problem here in Minnesota because we have very strict licensing and testing laws which are enforced as do many other states. We don't have companies here sending out idiots to do the job of skilled craftsmen. We can't just hire someone off the street and send them to a customers home to do any work, it's against the law. Apprentices or helpers here in Minnesota can not work on their own, they have to work with a Journeyman or Master plumber at all times. After they've built up enough hours they can then test for their journeyman license and if they pass they can then work on their own though only under a licensed Master Plumber. After the journeyman plumber has enough documented and proven hours he can then test for his Master License which at that time and only at that time can he become an owner. Take a guess at how many plumbers in California could actually pass a Master Plumbers test based on their current knowledge? How many could actually size water, waste, gas, etc. for a five story commercial building as per code using fixture units on paper within the time for the test? Then when you're done with that draw out an isometric drawing and size it for another building?
    Besides that you still have the written section. If I had to guess I would say 99.9% could not pass it. After being licensed in Ca. for years I could not pass this test without taking a few weekends of classes from the PHCC here in Mn. Luckily I had a wonderful teacher and after studying for hundreds of hours, drawing isometrics, being very frustrated for weeks and asking myself what do I need this for? I did pass it the first time and it opened my eyes big time. I had no idea what I had been missing all those years.
    The problem you speak of is not a trade problem, it's a California problem and I agree it's a very big problem. The California laws and the written test is a joke. I didn't even have two years under my belt back then when I took the test and passed it in Ca. They don't do background checks or verify anything. You can only blame Ca. for this problem, not our trade.
    The new tools and joining methods are a normal progression of our trade and it's always been like this, things change. But when someone is legally sending out dummies with little or no knowledge then who's fault is that?
    Last edited by ironranger; 10-21-2012, 02:45 PM.

    Leave a comment:

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