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  • early morning wake up call

    had a 6:17 wake up call this morning from a customer with water raining down from the ceiling of the den.

    had to try to walk him in the dark to the water shut off outside. problem was i didn't know exactly where in the front yard it was located. told him i'd be there in 10 minutes.

    went there to discover the ceiling leaking bad. cut open the newer drywall and discovered the culprit. a cheap brass coupling from the old gal pipe to the new copper that was installed by their contractor 18 months ago. simple fix, difficult access due to the painted pine wall paneling. the coupling split is right at the wall plate line.

    letting the owner contact the contractor for a fix. the hardwood floors might be damaged due to the amount this was spraying out.

    rick.




    look at the hairline split on the brass coupling. tightened too tight and cheap hex machined thin wall coupling. also looks like 50/50 solder on the 90 for the hot. lead free solder doesn't bead up like that.



    tight access as the gal pipe starts just above the plate line and copper is below. coupling and brass nipple at plate.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by PLUMBER RICK; 12-15-2012, 11:33 AM.
    phoebe it is

  • #2
    Re: early morning wake up call

    you can see the coupling on the galvanized side is slightly bent out, expanded... way too tight.

    rick, were there any tool marks at the split? i've seen tool marks create weaknesses before, maybe from thinning, compression, or expansion of the metal at the mark. i try to avoid using tools that bite into the metal when working with the softer metals.
    ~~

    ... it was plumbed by Ray Charles and his helper Stevie Wonder

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    • #3
      Re: early morning wake up call

      Who pays? I say the homeowner.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: early morning wake up call

        Never saw a coupler like that. Something off the bagged brass fittings at hd/blowes?

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: early morning wake up call

          Originally posted by BobsPlumbing View Post
          Who pays? I say the homeowner.
          i say the contractor

          i was right

          homeowner texted me that the contractor showed up and called his plumber to fix it. and they are fixing the drywall and any water damage.

          the fitting is junk, but the installation was even more junk. i'm sure they really didn't want to go up against the homeowner who's used them for the last 3 jobs. not to mention a top notch litigator in calif.

          now all i need is to see what my wake up call is worth. possibly a nice dinner


          rick.
          phoebe it is

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: early morning wake up call

            Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
            i say the contractor

            i was right

            homeowner texted me that the contractor showed up and called his plumber to fix it. and they are fixing the drywall and any water damage.

            the fitting is junk, but the installation was even more junk. i'm sure they really didn't want to go up against the homeowner who's used them for the last 3 jobs. not to mention a top notch litigator in calif.

            now all i need is to see what my wake up call is worth. possibly a nice dinner


            rick.
            Ok, let's play with this a second or two.

            Is the fitting not "approved"?

            You say overtightened. What is the torque measurement for being overtightened?

            It was in a year and a half. When does it become the homeowners property again? 2 years? 5? 10? More?

            Thanks.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: early morning wake up call

              Originally posted by BobsPlumbing View Post
              Ok, let's play with this a second or two.

              Is the fitting not "approved"?

              You say overtightened. What is the torque measurement for being overtightened?

              It was in a year and a half. When does it become the homeowners property again? 2 years? 5? 10? More?

              Thanks.
              pretty much 10 years when it's out of sight on new installation contracts. it's also an illegal fitting and most likely no permit on the remodel. i doubt the contractor would want to fight the battle. he got lucky that the homeowner was up early, cold water and shut off before they ruined the hardwood flooring.

              spoke to a buddy this morning and he too has come across these junk fittings that have split.

              price pfister had issues at 1 time with the union adapters that were splitting years after the install. they ended up redesigning the adapter half union.

              rick.
              phoebe it is

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: early morning wake up call

                Thanks. What's the approved fitting there?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: early morning wake up call

                  a listed and approved lead free fitting with a manufacturers stamp on it. traceability of the fitting.

                  rick.
                  phoebe it is

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: early morning wake up call

                    honestly would have been a pack joint coupling for me.
                    No, it's not rocket science, it's plumbing and unlike rocket science it requires a license.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: early morning wake up call

                      Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                      a listed and approved lead free fitting with a manufacturers stamp on it. traceability of the fitting.

                      rick.
                      Thanks. Now, if this approved/traceable fitting were used, and something similar happened, would the plumber, contractor, fitting manufacturer, or homeowner be on the hook?

                      Makes me wonder. Hmmmmm.......

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: early morning wake up call

                        seen price pfister and brass craft stand behind similar issues a couple years after the original install.

                        you can always go after the manufacturer and put them on the hook/ notice. but with non approved fittings, you go after the person who purchased and installed it. let them figure out what to do.

                        my concern is also with what looks like lead based solder and flux that's doesn't appear to be water soluble. when you see 1 issue, you look for others. just that little hole i exposed, exposes other issues.

                        rick.
                        phoebe it is

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: early morning wake up call

                          Originally posted by BobsPlumbing View Post
                          Ok, let's play with this a second or two.

                          Is the fitting not "approved"?

                          You say overtightened. What is the torque measurement for being overtightened?

                          It was in a year and a half. When does it become the homeowners property again? 2 years? 5? 10? More?

                          Thanks.

                          1/2" and 3/4" fittings usually only gets drawn up 1/4" and that pic shows it buried with probably way too much tape.
                          AllurePlumbing.com
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                          • drain cleaning
                          • utility locating
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                          • and other specialties.

                          Greensboro NC, Winston-Salem NC, High Point NC, Thomasville NC, Kernersville NC

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                          • #14
                            Re: early morning wake up call

                            Originally posted by Gettinit View Post
                            1/2" and 3/4" fittings usually only gets drawn up 1/4" and that pic shows it buried with probably way too much tape.
                            Thanks. Here's what I'm getting too. And almost everyone has seen it.

                            What happens when you use an approved fitting, the right amount of tape, have it tightened the "proper" amount, and have a leak? Maybe you take it off and retape with an extra round or two. Still a slow riser of a drip. You tighten another full turn and it stops. I have not encountered a plumber that has not seen similar situations. Then a year and a half later it splits and leaks.

                            Now everyone can conveniently blame you. Nice for the fitting manufacturer, homeowners, and insurance companies to put you in a position of repipe the house or be blamed no matter what. Time to charge more, more, more!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: early morning wake up call

                              Originally posted by BobsPlumbing View Post
                              Thanks. Here's what I'm getting too. And almost everyone has seen it.

                              What happens when you use an approved fitting, the right amount of tape, have it tightened the "proper" amount, and have a leak? Maybe you take it off and retape with an extra round or two. Still a slow riser of a drip. You tighten another full turn and it stops. I have not encountered a plumber that has not seen similar situations. Then a year and a half later it splits and leaks.

                              Now everyone can conveniently blame you. Nice for the fitting manufacturer, homeowners, and insurance companies to put you in a position of repipe the house or be blamed no matter what. Time to charge more, more, more!
                              If you took your time and did everything by the book chances are something is wrong with a fitting. At that point I inspect and more than likely use a different fitting. Burying the threads is never the answer.
                              AllurePlumbing.com
                              • leak detection
                              • drain cleaning
                              • utility locating
                              • conductor fault locating
                              • and other specialties.

                              Greensboro NC, Winston-Salem NC, High Point NC, Thomasville NC, Kernersville NC

                              Comment

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