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Watch the BLOOD run with this one..............!!!!!!!!!!

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  • Watch the BLOOD run with this one..............!!!!!!!!!!

    Unlike you guys over in the States and Europe "Propress" for the use of a general term is extremely new technology here. Now some have taken to it easily but others are still wary and nervous.
    The latest to hit the Air-waves here is that our Regulator has decided that the Manufacturers MUST give them evidence that their product is safe. However, some of the Inspectors have been speaking out against the system especially on GAS. They are claiming that there are many installations that are being tested and having chart recorders placed on them without failure. However it appears that some months later they are finding massive leaks appearing in the system. They are being extremely cautious and telling us NOTHING at present. You see we have an AMBULANCE CHASING mentality that has become an extremely lucrative business for the gutter crawling legal fraternity. Now one of the Inspectors has spoken out and claims that the rubber O-rings are not suitable for Natural Gas. "Apparently" the gas is impacting the o-ring and breaking it down. We also have had a half-hearted claim that we are not allowed to install the system outdoors where it is exposed to direct sunlight because the pipe temperature can exceed 80degC which is supposedly above the rating of the O-rings. Then we have the issue of running Hot Water in office buildings for the ring mains on the air-conditioning system. Maybe too hot??????????
    The big question is have you guys had ANY issues with the "propress (general term only guys)" similar to what I have detailed above. We need to force the hand of the regulator and experience is the best tool available to us. Sure this should spur them into investigation which is more than their typical "sit on their hands Public Service Mentality" and do absolutely nothing. We want to protect our clients safety and further our businesses, not get sued to the living end.
    As usual all help welcomed.

  • valve sensei
    replied
    Re: Watch the BLOOD run with this one..............!!!!!!!!!!

    Originally posted by Cleanmen2 View Post
    Thanks VS, I am aware that there are alternatives with Stainless Steel. Biggest scare so far though is the tool - a lazy $17k. Might have to wait for Plumber Rick to come downunder for the roundup and I can borrow some from his petty cash draw....................hehehehehehehehehheeheheee e!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    17K for the tool! That's doesn't sound right! I can buy a tool for NZ$7K to do 15mm-108mm? It's a quality Euro brand. There is no way a Rigid unit would be 3 times more than a German tool?

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  • Cleanmen2
    replied
    Re: Watch the BLOOD run with this one..............!!!!!!!!!!

    Originally posted by valve sensei View Post
    Yes you can get stainless in Oz in other brands! I know it's being used in the food industry for potable water and the mining industry. I've seen it used as electrical conduit (Sch 10) as well! From what I understand Oz is investing in food, dairy and beverage/brewry/winery for the export market all going to the same place you send your minerals too
    Thanks VS, I am aware that there are alternatives with Stainless Steel. Biggest scare so far though is the tool - a lazy $17k. Might have to wait for Plumber Rick to come downunder for the roundup and I can borrow some from his petty cash draw....................hehehehehehehehehheeheheee e!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • valve sensei
    replied
    Re: Watch the BLOOD run with this one..............!!!!!!!!!!

    Originally posted by Cleanmen2 View Post
    Funny you mention Stainless Steel. Crane aren't interested in bringing it into Australia. We have alternatives, just don't have the work at present as this useless Red-Headed Prime Minister has stuffed our Nation and no one is investing in our country.
    Yes you can get stainless in Oz in other brands! I know it's being used in the food industry for potable water and the mining industry. I've seen it used as electrical conduit (Sch 10) as well! From what I understand Oz is investing in food, dairy and beverage/brewry/winery for the export market all going to the same place you send your minerals too

    Leave a comment:


  • Cleanmen2
    replied
    Re: Watch the BLOOD run with this one..............!!!!!!!!!!

    Originally posted by valve sensei View Post
    We've used propress stainless fittings with std Butyll rubber on hot water washdown, sterilisers and solar panels system on 95+ water for years. The Viton sealed ones for steam below 10barg. The propress system is the only thing that works well for stainless. I've had little experience with the copper propress but in saying that there is a lot of bad Chinese copper tube on the market here in NZ! The o-ring UV issue is a load of crap! We used it in wineries for years
    Funny you mention Stainless Steel. Crane aren't interested in bringing it into Australia. We have alternatives, just don't have the work at present as this useless Red-Headed Prime Minister has stuffed our Nation and no one is investing in our country.

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  • Cleanmen2
    replied
    Re: Watch the BLOOD run with this one..............!!!!!!!!!!

    Originally posted by RDT View Post
    You can check the website below for infomration specific to ProPress in Australia.


    http://www.cranecopper.com.au/product/viega_propress.asp
    RDT, thankyou. Again I am going to get a smack but it is unfortunate that Viega did the deal with Crane as they don't have the competence to handle the product. We have a question, so what do you want Crane to do. We don't have the support you guys have.

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  • valve sensei
    replied
    Re: Watch the BLOOD run with this one..............!!!!!!!!!!

    We've used propress stainless fittings with std Butyll rubber on hot water washdown, sterilisers and solar panels system on 95+ water for years. The Viton sealed ones for steam below 10barg. The propress system is the only thing that works well for stainless. I've had little experience with the copper propress but in saying that there is a lot of bad Chinese copper tube on the market here in NZ! The o-ring UV issue is a load of crap! We used it in wineries for years

    Leave a comment:


  • RDT
    replied
    Re: Watch the BLOOD run with this one..............!!!!!!!!!!

    You can check the website below for infomration specific to ProPress in Australia.


    http://www.cranecopper.com.au/product/viega_propress.asp

    Leave a comment:


  • Cleanmen2
    replied
    Re: Watch the BLOOD run with this one..............!!!!!!!!!!

    Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
    There are 3 Different o-rings available. 1 specifically for gas. It's a yellow o-ring.

    As far as 80c. = 176f.. That's a lower number than what we use. I will double check your numbers.

    Our potable water specs are 200psi at 250f. With a test pressure of 600 psi.

    See the test approvals submittal package with all the specs below.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...44990110,d.cGE

    Rick.
    Rick time sometimes allows the mind a chance to catch up and think. Are you saying that you guys have to test your installations to 200psi on water. What about natural gas, what pressure do you normally run at. The other critical, IMHO, could be the difference in your copper tube to ours. Is there a site that we can compare with ours, that being Crane Copper or Kembla Copper. WE aren't supposed to use anything other than what we call type B tube which has a defined wall thickness. Sorry to jump all over the place but also the main suggestion in regards to the "propress type system" being used on copper tube external is that the sun has a huge effect as far as expansion and contraction. As we know Copper can have a huge growth rate to it which is not always controllable but......!!! I know I am going into this a bit but our license makes us somewhat responsible, basically guilty until we can prove innocent or other. What concerns me more than the Ambulance chasing solicitors is our clients. We act in good faith to help them progress their business and hopefully take us along with them as they grow and we don't want to throw any spanners in the works if we can avoid it.

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  • Cleanmen2
    replied
    Re: Watch the BLOOD run with this one..............!!!!!!!!!!

    Guys please don't for one moment think I am taking the pi55 out of you. I like the system. I do however think that there are probably many tricks that we need to learn and use. Rick I know the gas o-ring is yellow. My initial frustration comes about by what is known here as PUBLIC SERVANTS. Our regulator is such a useless piece of spineless nothing no one knows why we have or need them. They have sanctioned Viega and others and some 18mths or more start to ask questions.
    I fully agree with the assertion that the method of installation is critical. Proper planning and procedure prevent pi55 poor performance. One of our suppliers is trying to get red-rings out here which are supposed to be for compressed air and steam. Rick thankyou for the references I will start following up this weekend when I have a moment

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  • RDT
    replied
    Re: Watch the BLOOD run with this one..............!!!!!!!!!!

    The US has embraced Pressing and has found it to be a good technology assuming it is installed correctly and use on the proper systems. Here is a document from Viega USA that provides technical data, approved applications, and other system details for ProPress G. You will see on page 6 that is can also be used on applications up to 250F (121C).

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  • PLUMBER RICK
    replied
    Re: Watch the BLOOD run with this one..............!!!!!!!!!!

    There are 3 Different o-rings available. 1 specifically for gas. It's a yellow o-ring.

    As far as 80c. = 176f.. That's a lower number than what we use. I will double check your numbers.

    Our potable water specs are 200psi at 250f. With a test pressure of 600 psi.

    See the test approvals submittal package with all the specs below.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...44990110,d.cGE

    Rick.
    Last edited by PLUMBER RICK; 04-09-2013, 08:49 AM.

    Leave a comment:

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