Announcement Announcement Module
Collapse
No announcement yet.
Decision Time - New Home Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse
X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Decision Time - New Home

    The ProPress system was presented to me by a commercial contractor for use on sprinkler piping in the Colorado State Capitol. The primary benefit was the flameless installation. [We are working in concealed areas with 100 year old wood framing.] We elected to go with traditional soldering on this project, and so-far so good. However, I am about to build my own home, with a Weil Mclain boiler, radiant floors, etc. I don't know if any reputable local (Denver, CO) plumbers are using the system but I was thinking about training my GC and purchasing the tools as a way of saving cost and time without compromising quality. If all goes well, we can use this as a profit source on future work together. Am I headed down the right track?

  • #2
    There are some here who swear by the propress system. It is my personal professional opinion that propress is great when a tie in needs to be made in an existing system or a repair in a line that will always be exposed is the intended use.

    Bear in mind that each joint will have at least two o-rings that will expand and contract at a different rate than the metal pipe it seals against. A competent plumber will be able to make solder joints that expand and contract at the same rate and there will be no rubber or neoprene parts to wear out. He will be able to build this system in a not too much longer time than pro-press.

    If this is the home you intend to spend any amount of time in I would reccommend staying with a method that has proven itself for 80+ years. Pro press has its place, but an entire new construction job, in my humble opinion, is not it.
    Work hard, Play hard, Sleep easy.

    Comment


    • #3
      well as most have read these last few weeks, plumber and i don't always agree. although i'm in lower case for the time being.
      i own 3 of these machines. 2- 320 1/2'' - 4'' and a 100 1/2'' - 1''.
      as plumber stated it's great for quick tie ins. read the last post on golf and propress. as far as speed goes, there is no comparison. especially as the pipe gets bigger. the cost savings is on labor, not on materials. for your own home, it probably won't pay back. but it's a great place to try. and you'll own the machine for the next jobs to really start saving money and time.
      the propress system has been around for 20? years in europe and a few years here. it's backed by a 50 year warranty. it takes seconds to press a fitting and very little time to prep the pipe. cut and ream. mark the depth with a sharpie marker to make sure the fitting is in all the way. there is no fighting the tightness of the fitting. the joints are very loose prior to pressing. this is a real bonus on the larger fittings. since there is no flux or flame you get a perfect looking joint and no need for any kind of fire precautions. great in wood framing. the fittings are of a long turn radious and of type k copper. better than what's out there in the solder fittings.
      as far as an o-ring goes. i'm not concerned. look at any victaulic system out there. it's a rubber seal, sort of an o-ring. plus the person rolling or grooving the pipe is much more at fault than the vic. fitting.
      also most home style water filters use a o-ring for the connection to the tubing. in fact watts has out a newer line of fittings called "shark bite". these too use a o-ring to seal.
      i know that the space shuttle had an o-ring problem, but we're not quite flying a rocket ship to the moon.
      try it, you'll like it. if not email me, i can always use a 4th. propress. hope my wife isn't reading this.

      rick.

      [ 08-28-2005, 05:53 PM: Message edited by: PLUMBER RICK ]

      Comment


      • #4
        I'm still kind of with Plumber here. Standard solder joints have lasted and lasted.

        But, the new fluxes have changed soldering, in my opinion. I'm speaking here of the water soluable fluxes we are required to us in California, and else where.

        I'm not as sold on a joint installed with this flux, as the old joints using No-Corode (sp?), or others. I actually think it might be time to look for alternatives.

        If Indiana does not require water soluable flux, I would stay with the traditional solder joint. I, myself, am willing to look at alternative methods.

        This does not mean I am sold on Pro-Press. The warrenty depends on the conditions. As stated before, if the terms simply replace the fittings, that's not much of an insurance against failure. But I am willing to look into it. I am not at this time reccomending it.

        the dog
        the dog

        Comment


        • #5
          dog, i'm with you on the flux thing. years ago, just at the start of the change over to water souliable flux. i was part of a test group for nokorode flux. i was sort of a guiney pig? testing and reporting back to the co. well as you guessed it, nokorode went from the best flux, to the worst. not even sure if they have a flux out there still? i didn't like anything they sent me. what i miss most about the old stuff is the lack of lubricating properties, and the fact that if there is any water in the system when soldering. the steam generated washes away the new flux.
          about the only stuff that seems to be halfway decent is everflux. boy do i miss the good old stuff.
          what do you like dog?
          repairs are no longer an issue with propress. fittings slip together better than ever. water is not an issue. time is money.
          just like the old tv ad slogan, "try it, you'll like it".

          i get to many commercial jobs for many different contractors. i've seen a major hotel piped with propress. the contractor loved it. give it some time, no hub didn't happen overnight.

          rick.

          Comment


          • #6
            Rick,

            Everflux is the only half-way decent flux on the market. I agree, good old Nevercorode was the best. But, it's gone in California.

            Used to be that you charged a system and it leaked or it didn't. Not anymore. I'm looking into new systems.

            I deal in engineering specs. Period. Plumber is also in this situation. It is fine to suggest new systems, but we are powerless to introduce them.

            the dog
            the dog

            Comment


            • #7
              Dog,

              I am sure your opinion has been sought by GCs and other contractors. Granted we do not get the final say but we do have some influence simply by our opinions subtley placed.

              I agree with you guys about the new fluxes. On clean dry virgin pipe I've don't have much problem but on older retrofit and addons its a nightmare to use. If a company ever invents some good repair flux to meet the new specs I will buy shares tomorrow.
              Work hard, Play hard, Sleep easy.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by plumber:
                Dog,

                I am sure your opinion has been sought by GCs and other contractors. Granted we do not get the final say but we do have some influence simply by our opinions subtley placed.

                I agree with you guys about the new fluxes. On clean dry virgin pipe I've don't have much problem but on older retrofit and addons its a nightmare to use. If a company ever invents some good repair flux to meet the new specs I will buy shares tomorrow.
                Plumber,

                That's the problem with the new fluxes. Used to be you could slap a little flux and solder on a leak and it was good. The modern flux doesn't work that way.

                the dog
                the dog

                Comment


                • #9
                  I can still buy no-korode regular and cold weather flux and I still use it.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by AZPlumber:
                    I can still buy no-korode regular and cold weather flux and I still use it.

                    az, but is it legal to use. sure we all can buy this flux. and sure i've used it for that special application, but it's not legal. same as 50/50 solder.

                    the introduction of lead free solder 15 years ago was a small blow compared to the new water soluable flux. it seems that we are all on the same page with the quality of the new flux. we can't fit up pipe all day and fall back at the end of the day to solder. we certantly can't do any live tie in's without making sure the water is compleatly drained out. any steam is a leaker.

                    one of the main issues i've invested in the propress system. i would think that in your freezing work enviroment, a fast clean repair would make it nice for you and the homeowner. although you can still use your turbo-torch to keep you warm while working outdoors.

                    rick.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      After having read Thoreau's "Civil Disobedience" as a kid, I have always wanted to practise a bit of my own ever since. This was my opportunity to finally do so, and I feel liberated and free. Thank you no-korode!

                      But seriously, no, it's not legal here anymore either, at least in new construction. But I'm mostly service oriented now, and I have'nt been accosted by anyone on any service call, including inspectors and city program admins like weatherization contracts, to stop using it. So I don't. And on new construction, there's tons of guys around here still using no-korode, even resorting to tricks like emptying a can of water soluable and refilling it with N-K. And there's alot of inspectors who seem to be turning the other cheek so to speak.

                      The "water soluable" fluxes are just garbage, great for washing off your hands, terrible for assurance of leak free joints. And it's not technique or skill of the plumber, I've seen top journeymen have a hard time with the stuff, and another thing I've noticed about it is it's propensity to go bad if it's applied to a fitting and not sweat right away, it turns green and you have to wipe it off and start over. The stuff is a bad joke.

                      There are a couple of supply houses locally who still carry the "old stuff" and I still buy it and use it. I don't know if I've been just lucky that I have'nt been busted by the flux police on any service calls yet or if it really is'nt being enforced on anything except new construction. I simply don't have the time and conditions won't allow for me to waste endless amounts of it re-sweating leaky joints or prepping and sweating them all one at a time. So when the day comes they catch me and tell me I will go to spend a goodly portin of my life in a gulag for using it, and i can no longer replace the stuff, I will of course discontinue to use it, and I will challenge the inspector to stand outside in 20 below and try to repair that 2" copper boiler manifold that's starting to form frost on it to get the job done quickly with his precious water soluable.

                      OK, rant is done and I'll shutup now.

                      Oh by the way I highly discourage the use of torches for heating purposes. I had a job replacing a bad dialectric on an outside boiler awhile back, and my feet started to freeze, so while I had the torch out I thought it would be a cool idea to warm my feet with it until my boots started melting. Yes, I'm not too bright at times too when my brain freezes but that's beside the point.

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X