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  • Threading problems

    We are having theading problems. We have two 300 power vises and two sets of threading dies 1/2"-2". We have adjusted the 2" dies with new factory threaded nipples. Changed different brands of oils, 2" new cutting dies, different supply house pipe, rented dies, and new 2" threading head with new dies. Switched to domestic pipe on one job and everything was good. Started on another job and started with domestic and lots of problems. The new die head threaded better, but still not correct. I have contacted a testing company to test this steel to find out, if the recipe is correct according to the stamps on the pipe. It seems to me that the pipe is to brittle and not malleable. We are seasoned almost old school plumbers and have all discussed what our masters shown us during apprenticeships. We have gone through all the dies by factory recommendations and old knowledge. No luck. Spoke to another plumber this morning. He said the 300 needs to be rebuilt? We will start that Monday. Is anyone else having issues?

  • #2
    Can you post a couple photos of threads you have cut, that might help tell the story.
    "It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?" Bob D. 2006

    https://www.youtube.com/user/PowerToolInstitute

    ----

    1/20/2017 - The Beginning of a new Error

    Comment


    • #3
      Any chance of getting the same domestic pipe as the 1 you had good luck with.

      the 300 has a high speed gear option, any idea if your's is a high speed model?

      there's always "mega press" it's propress for steel pipe.

      Rick.
      phoebe it is

      Comment


      • #4
        I will get some better photos up on Monday. These are the best threads we were getting. I have a stack of cut pipe on a pallet at the shop. As far as I know, the pipe was from the same supply house branch. Could have been a new skid of pipe. I did not know about a high speed 300. How would one adjust the speed? Was there a switch or would it be wired?
        Attached Files

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        • #5
          The speed is based on the gears installed in the machine. The model number would normally dictate the speed choice.

          looking at the clean photo, looks like junk pipe or poor oil or lack of sufficient oil.

          Rick.
          phoebe it is

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks Rick
            I wish it was that easy. We tried three brands of oil. We were dumping the oil onto the pipe with a large cup saturating everything. I am going to get better photos tomorrow. I wonder, when the factory thread is made on the pipe. When the pipe is cooling after rolled? At a different location? The factory threads are perfect. Are they installed while the pipe is soft during cooling? I will research model numbers for high speed machines. I am leaning toward bad pipe. We do these gas lines about twice a month for these size houses. This is not the first time, but first time I have gone for help online. Going to look into tuning up machines this week.

            Comment


            • #7
              disclaimer I know very little about threading machines,
              but I have looked at the catalogs some, are the correct type of dies being used?
              (do not know if the chart will stay in line but I think you will see what I am asking,

              Die Material or Type 18"-27, 14"-38"-18, 12"-34"-14, 1"-2"-1112
              Alloy RH ..................47735 ...47740 ..........47745 ..........47750
              High-Speed RH........ 47755 ...47760 ..........47765 ..........47770
              H.S. For Stainless Steel RH 47775 ..47780 ..47785 ..........47790
              H.S. For Cast Iron .................................................. .........70740
              H.S. For PVC RH .........................................70745 ..........70750
              H.S. For Plastic Coated Pipe RH ....................50012 ..........31822
              my guess is there is some difference in the grind/angels or there would not be that many choices,
              Last edited by BHD; 02-06-2017, 02:18 AM.
              Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
              "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
              attributed to Samuel Johnson
              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
              PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Gaplumbing View Post
                Thanks Rick
                I wonder, when the factory thread is made on the pipe. When the pipe is cooling after rolled? At a different location? The factory threads are perfect.
                do not know if all pipe factorys do it this way but my guess is it is similar, could even be milled or rolled on like a bolt,


                Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
                attributed to Samuel Johnson
                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

                Comment


                • #9
                  What is the spec of the pipe you are using?
                  A53 Gr A or B ? Welded or seamless?
                  Or is it A106 (comes in grades A, B, or C) which
                  is a seamless pipe for high temperature applications.

                  The chemical composition of each is different and can
                  cause problems when threading. A106 has silicon where
                  as A53 pipe has none.
                  "It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?" Bob D. 2006

                  https://www.youtube.com/user/PowerToolInstitute

                  ----

                  1/20/2017 - The Beginning of a new Error

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Here are some pieces and a couple of test pieces. The guys ran some of the threads long to see what would happen. Same results. Spoke to another local plumber. He said he had some problems last year. He took a piece of pipe to see if his guys get the same results without telling them the issue.
                    Attached Files

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                    • #11
                      Have you tried running a thread on a nipple or other pipe (other than the suspect pipe) and see if you get the same results?
                      Have any old (as in Made in USA from the 80s or earlier) around that you can try and see if you get the same results.

                      Having someone else try the same pipe is a good idea, whole new set of tools and hands so if they get the same results it
                      points to the pipe and not your method or tools.

                      Don't let Donald find out Mexico is sending us bad pipe on top of everything else.
                      "It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?" Bob D. 2006

                      https://www.youtube.com/user/PowerToolInstitute

                      ----

                      1/20/2017 - The Beginning of a new Error

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Good explanation on rolling threaders. Even did it without the spam link.

                        years back we were allowed to grove pipe for victaulic fittings. Now it is rolled into place. But this leaves an internal offset bead.

                        will threading this way also distort the internal id of the pipe?

                        my buddy uses a cnc lathe to machine threads into pipe. But most plumbers are not going to spend thst kind of money to thread pipe.

                        Rick.
                        phoebe it is

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Well, I had another plumber thread the pipe and got the same results. Good to know it is not just us. Now, I have to confront the supply house. Alexfrank, I wish it was that easy. This pipe is being fabricated on a job site, through large scale houses. The pipe is what we call black steel. No galvinize, though it probably would thread better. I think what you are thinking is paint is actually a blue teflon tape and white is thread sealant paste. I have not heard of a roll threader.But after this mess, I will be looking into it. The only machine I know of is the The Ridgid 300 with hand threading dies or a cradle threader.

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                          • #14
                            sounds like a very expensive alternative to cutting threads. But it also sounds like a system that is far superior to what we have done for a decade.

                            Are your machines portable, or is it a factory type of machine?

                            Rick.
                            phoebe it is

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I am thinking alexfrank describing the machine in the video that BHD posted. At least with ours, if something got caught in it. One could possibly reach the switch before something got ripped off. With that roller machine, one would be an OSHA example picture at continuing education. Boys, Thanks for the input.

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