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  • #16
    Re: deburring pipes

    Thank you Mark,
    I guess I was trying to use a euphamism,I don't even know if thats the right
    word.
    I just erased an hour of typing.To much uneccessary info.
    This is the first and only forum of individuals that is aligned with my interests.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: deburring pipes

      not to be smart but how come the pipes that were put in 10 or more years a go by some one who did not ream the pipes are still in use today .

      the pin holes you talk about is it from hard water or other things in the water ?

      i my self have taking apart pipes that were 15 yrs old and they did not ream the pipe . i did this because i like to check to see how good the solder joint is .just something i do .

      just a thought
      Charlie

      My seek the peek fundraiser page
      http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


      http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

      new work pictures 12/09
      http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: deburring pipes

        Velocity erosion is caused by the cavitation of water when the laminar flow is being interrupted because the outside flow of the water (the slow part) in the pipe hits the burr in the pipe. At that point the water flow can increase 10 fold on the outside of the flow.

        In the case of a line which is designed at 7 fps all of a sudden it can be traveling at 70 fps. That action will wash the patina protection off of the pipe which leaves it vulnerable to velocity erosion. In some cases it is almost like what happens when you use a high-pressure hose on your garden.

        All pipes will eventually be effected by this but some pipes could last decades or more. The pipes which generally fail first are those which are traveling at high velocities and are constantly moving. Hence a undersized hot water circulating line will fail a lot sooner than a low velocity cold water line will.

        This is not limited to just plumbing but is also a big issue on the hydraulics of aircraft.

        Mark
        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: deburring pipes

          Another term for it is "erosion corrosion". As ToUtah said, it is a combination of the mechanical material removal of the higher velocity of fluid combined with the corrosive action of the water. It can also occur downstream of an elbow (normally about 1 to 3 diameters of the pipe from the bend) in high velocity systems like low pressure (wet) steam or HTHW (High Temp Hot Water) systems if the system isn't treated with corrosion inhibitors. A burr or other obstruction just magnifies the problem. The corrosiveness of the water in many areas, combined with the relative softness of copper can make it a real problem in a short period of time in potable water systems.

          Go
          Practicing at practical wood working

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: deburring pipes

            Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
            thanks dirthands. good name. i used to get called dirty hands, then i got married and starting wearing gloves. i did jetting all day today. glad i had on double gloves


            i appreciate the compliment my wife is not going to like it glad to see your local, so.cal. at least we use the same code standards. there has been a big influx of canadians. their codes are not quite the same.


            stick with this forum and you'll find an answer to dam near everything.

            what is the winning lottery numbers for saturday

            well almost everything

            there is a good mix of street smarts and book smarts. there is also a "dog" to watch out for. he bites

            welcome and help add to this fun and informative forum.

            thanks again.

            rick.


            Reading the posts on this site im really starting to notice how different our codes are. It's odd that things our code puts alot of emphasis on, your codes neglect all together, and vice versa. It makes me wonder which codes might not hold any merit at all. Just a thought. Though as far as reaming goes, thats in our codebook(s) too.
            West Trail Mechanical Ltd
            Service. Commitment. Expertise.

            www.westtrailmechanical.ca

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: deburring pipes

              it's not the fact that reaming is required. it's the stupidity that 1 inspector wanted the 1/2'' copper stub reamed prior to installing an angle stop.
              i would love to see any errosion or excess noise due to lack of reaming a stub out on the compression connection to an angle stop.

              1 inspector compared to the hundreds that i dealt with since 1981.

              he never did ask me to remove 1 to check. just a scare tatic.

              ps, i do ream all piping for the exception of an angle stop here and there. including 1/4''soft copper for an ice maker. if you don't ream 1/4'', you don't get water

              if an inspector really wanted to do his job, then they should crawl under a house remodel. still waiting for 1 inspector to do that. i inspect lots of jobs for homeowners. still havn't seen 1 job that was 100% correct on the jobs i've inspected. 2 wrongs don't make a right but what's more critical? an angle stop that wasn't reamed, or a waste line that is graded backwards and uses san tees instead of combies? don't get me started on inspectors and contractors in the residential end. 15 + years on the commercial side with real plumbing inspectors and another 11+ with combination inspectors.

              like i said, don't get me started.

              rick.
              phoebe it is

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: deburring pipes

                what is curious to me is that down here the followers in a state that utilizes
                a uniform plumbing code enforcement,cannot beleive what the guys in the next state over are getting away with utilizing the international plumbing code.
                To the guys who may know;What happend with us using ipc for the entire nation about ten years ago.
                Reaming?20 years ago my apprenticeship school teacher was walking our job
                while we were running copper and obviously not reaming.Told us to stop teasing him or he was going to make us ream for the rest of that job.
                I honestly am glad they are enforcing it down here.It helps keeping the parasite level down.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: deburring pipes

                  I have never seen lack of reaming cause erosion/corrosion in a residential potable water system. Except if there is a hot water recirc with a circulator. I have seen it cause problems in commercial systems where the water runs continously. I ream every piece of copper I put in. I only do service and repair, so most of the time the only reamed pipe is the stuff I did. I don't care, I only know one way to do it, the right way. It really doesn't add much more time to the job. I have found out that most plumbers who don't ream, don't mechanically clean the pipe and fittings, either.
                  Last edited by Bogart; 02-26-2007, 11:15 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: deburring pipes

                    i would say that you need to obey your local codes [ you have to ]

                    but to be a professional in any trade you must go beyond the codes and what is the right way .
                    Charlie

                    My seek the peek fundraiser page
                    http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


                    http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

                    new work pictures 12/09
                    http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: deburring pipes

                      Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
                      what is curious to me is that down here the followers in a state that utilizes
                      a uniform plumbing code enforcement,cannot beleive what the guys in the next state over are getting away with utilizing the international plumbing code.
                      To the guys who may know;What happend with us using ipc for the entire nation about ten years ago.
                      Reaming?20 years ago my apprenticeship school teacher was walking our job
                      while we were running copper and obviously not reaming.Told us to stop teasing him or he was going to make us ream for the rest of that job.
                      I honestly am glad they are enforcing it down here.It helps keeping the parasite level down.
                      The International Code is fairly similar to the Uniform Code except that they refer you to other Standards rather than telling you what those Standards are. I don't like it because that just increases the size of your library.

                      The International Code has the same requirements for reaming copper as the Uniform Code has. The two Codes looked like they were real close to merging last year then the announcement came out they will no longer be talking.

                      Mark
                      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: deburring pipes

                        Do any of you guys use a Noga deburring tool to ream your copper pipe? I just picked one up at the recommendation of the Journeyman I work under and it does a very nice job. It's a machinists deburring tool - costs about $30 CDN roughly. Does a much nicer job than the one on your copper cutters. And looks better too.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: deburring pipes

                          don'know what a noga looks like, but it is probably similar to a rothenberger reamer/ deburing tool. the reamers on the back of a tubing cutter are old school. still the best one is a 4 wheel pin style copper displacement tool

                          it actually rolls the copper burr/ ridge back into the copper. no burr and no scrap copper finding it's way into the system. works on 1/2'' - 2''.

                          rick.
                          phoebe it is

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: deburring pipes

                            Hey Rick,

                            This is the tool I have - It's the one in the picture under "deburring system"

                            http://www.noga.com/

                            Do you know of any pictures online of the tools you're talking about?

                            Scott

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: deburring pipes

                              these are pretty much the same as the rothenberger. interesting that none of the replacement blades are listed for copper. i also have the cone sp8000 reamer and the larger ridgid cone reamer. these are inner and outer style reamers. very important for propress to ream the outer burr.

                              you must be using the one for alum, steel, plastic. i know for a fact that the one listed for brass, cast iron doesn't work for copper.

                              now you started it since they make a reamer blade for cast iron, i guess we are going to have to start reaming our no hub cuts

                              i will have to see if i can find a picture for my 4 wheel/ pin reamer.

                              i think that what you're paying, $30cd, it's for a better quality handle.

                              1 tip. a dremel with a chainsaw grinding stone, approx. 5/32'' diameter, will do a great job in touching up a dull reamer blade. it only takes a second to sharpen them.

                              rick.
                              phoebe it is

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