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  • deburring pipes

    I thought that deburring pipe ends were mandatory by code. If not, it should be. I think it's just good common practice.

    I was working on a job site the other day, I noticed that some copper pipe ends were not deburred before they were sweat together. While working alongside another plumber today, I asked him why they don't debur their pipes. He says sure we debur them and dug around his tool bag for the deburring tool. He deburred a few ends and then I noticed that was the last of deburring for the rest of the day. I wasn't going to start in on him about that. I wasn't his boss. I was subbed by the general. The guy seemed a bit annoyed from the get go. But then again this guy was the same one that worked on a section of pipe and sprung a leak. Mine turned out fine.

  • #2
    Re: deburring pipes

    Originally posted by plumb crazy purple View Post
    I thought that deburring pipe ends were mandatory by code. If not, it should be. I think it's just good common practice.

    I was working on a job site the other day, I noticed that some copper pipe ends were not deburred before they were sweat together. While working alongside another plumber today, I asked him why they don't debur their pipes. He says sure we debur them and dug around his tool bag for the deburring tool. He deburred a few ends and then I noticed that was the last of deburring for the rest of the day. I wasn't going to start in on him about that. I wasn't his boss. I was subbed by the general. The guy seemed a bit annoyed from the get go. But then again this guy was the same one that worked on a section of pipe and sprung a leak. Mine turned out fine.
    Both the Uniform and the International Plumbing Codes require ALL pipes be reamed to their full bore. It is especially important with copper pipes because of the problem with pin-hole leaks due to velocity erosion.

    Mark
    "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

    I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: deburring pipes

      Plumb

      Some workers are both lazy and don't have any pride. They figure they can do half @$$ work, get paid, take money to bank and that's that. When their work ends up making trouble later on, it's too bad their branding marks aren't there to ID who did the poor work. I've seen some so called professional plumbers do some pretty shabby soldering too.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: deburring pipes

        mark, i once had a hard nose inspector that wanted the copper reamed at the cut end prior to installing a compression angle stop. appears that he had no clue about what causes the errosion. and no clue about the inside of an angle stop. especially the fact that its bored down to 3/8'' prior to the bibb washer. i have never seen a leak on an angle stop due to lack of reaming. and yes, i've installed in excess of 100,000 angle stops in the 15 years of new construction. by the way i did ream the stubs on the 544 unit apartment complex that this inspector was at.

        reaming is especially super important on a recirculating system. the pin hole leaks that i repair are on hot water lines 99% of the time. and 99% of the time it's on a hot line that has a pump and circulates when not using any fixtures. i like timers on pumps and aquastats if possible.

        i would like to see what effect that a propress fitting, 90 has on the pin hole issue.even with proper reaming, there is a crimp, crushing effect. the nice thing is that the propress fitting is twice as thick as a solder fitting.

        time will tell and 10 years is coming soon. i have used a marker, sharpie on some of my key jobs and dated the fittings. just a little in house test.



        rick.
        phoebe it is

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: deburring pipes

          Three guys had to re-pipe an entire the copper water system at a fast food restaurant that was going to open in 3 days.We worked 36 hours straight, your not going to tell Mcdonalds corp. they can't have there grand opening
          at the ABC studio building So. Cal.
          Rick,an inspector who was there to look at some fire sprinkler tie ins was looking over our helpers shoulder while he was installing an angle stop.
          Yes I asked the foreman,he wanted to play rockstar,he figured we would
          get away without reaming.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: deburring pipes

            Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
            mark, i once had a hard nose inspector that wanted the copper reamed at the cut end prior to installing a compression angle stop. appears that he had no clue about what causes the errosion. and no clue about the inside of an angle stop. especially the fact that its bored down to 3/8'' prior to the bibb washer. i have never seen a leak on an angle stop due to lack of reaming. and yes, i've installed in excess of 100,000 angle stops in the 15 years of new construction. by the way i did ream the stubs on the 544 unit apartment complex that this inspector was at.

            reaming is especially super important on a recirculating system. the pin hole leaks that i repair are on hot water lines 99% of the time. and 99% of the time it's on a hot line that has a pump and circulates when not using any fixtures. i like timers on pumps and aquastats if possible.

            i would like to see what effect that a propress fitting, 90 has on the pin hole issue.even with proper reaming, there is a crimp, crushing effect. the nice thing is that the propress fitting is twice as thick as a solder fitting.

            time will tell and 10 years is coming soon. i have used a marker, sharpie on some of my key jobs and dated the fittings. just a little in house test.



            rick.

            The problem is that the inspector is correct: by code it needs to be reamed. The angle stop has a smooth water way, a burred end does not.
            the dog

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: deburring pipes

              What I don't get is the angle stop's inlet is what 3/16" centerered inside
              of the pipe bore.Why have some code inforcement officials hit us with only
              "thats what the book says".

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: deburring pipes

                First and foremost, complying with the Codes is doing your work in a professional workmanship manner. It is easy to look at a Code and question whether it makes sense. Quite often those Codes were written by much wiser men than us. If you disagree with a Code there is a way to petition to change the Code but unless the Code is changed that is what we have to work with.

                To get back to the mechanics of why you are required to deburr angle stop stub-outs, dog hit it right on the head. The angle stop has a smooth water way and a non-reamed pipe does not.

                Poiseuille's Law tells us there is a different in friction between a laminar flow and a turbulent flow. Most associate turbulent flow with velocity erosion but just as important is the high pitched whistle which comes with the turbulent flow over a non-reamed pipe. I doubt you will ever have damage from velocity erosion at an angle stop but you may get a whistle which will drive the owner crazy.

                Mark
                "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: deburring pipes

                  dog, the inspector using common sence and interpretation of what the code is meant for will not require reaming of an angle stop stub. as the last poster wrote, it's got a 3/16'' opening. and no it's not a smoothe bore. it's as restrictive anything we could install. full port valves are required on line serving more than 1 fixture. a globe valve is all that's needed for a single fixture.

                  right or wrong, i never had an inspector ask me to pull an angle stop. if they ever did, they would be in for a real debate based on the purpose of reaming.

                  by the way dog, do you ream every angle stop and feed line you install

                  does anyone ream every angle stop and feed line they install

                  i ream every pipe i install. just not every angle stop

                  i have the best collection of reamers. infact my best one doesn't shave the pipe and fill it with shards. it displaces the copper back into itself. no burrs to get caught in soft rubber seals.

                  not sure how they get the propress seal of approval? on 1.5'' and 2'' it sure leaves a big crimp in the line

                  feedback please.

                  rick.
                  phoebe it is

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: deburring pipes

                    Utah:
                    I will more than likely never have such an understanding of your caliber.
                    Its probably going to take me 20 min. to type this measly post.

                    I am a mechanic,I hang pipe in such a manner to make people a lot of
                    money.I do not mean to disrupt this forum in any way.Rick the people
                    in your community are really fortunate to have someone like yourself
                    at there disposal.

                    Again the people here have so much wisdom,I just don't see this in the
                    field.It's something I appreciate.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: deburring pipes

                      Almost forgot,those pull type bore pullers for reaming?
                      saw one in the REMS catalog while looking for an attachment for my
                      amigo portable threader.

                      Rick how efficient is yours.As you stated step drill bits and standard
                      reamers always leaves shards.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: deburring pipes

                        Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
                        Utah:
                        I will more than likely never have such an understanding of your caliber.
                        Its probably going to take me 20 min. to type this measly post.

                        I am a mechanic,I hang pipe in such a manner to make people a lot of
                        money.I do not mean to disrupt this forum in any way.Rick the people
                        in your community are really fortunate to have someone like yourself
                        at there disposal.

                        Again the people here have so much wisdom,I just don't see this in the
                        field.It's something I appreciate.
                        thanks dirthands. good name. i used to get called dirty hands, then i got married and starting wearing gloves. i did jetting all day today. glad i had on double gloves


                        i appreciate the compliment my wife is not going to like it glad to see your local, so.cal. at least we use the same code standards. there has been a big influx of canadians. their codes are not quite the same.

                        stick with this forum and you'll find an answer to dam near everything.

                        what is the winning lottery numbers for saturday

                        well almost everything

                        there is a good mix of street smarts and book smarts. there is also a "dog" to watch out for. he bites

                        welcome and help add to this fun and informative forum.

                        thanks again.

                        rick.
                        phoebe it is

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: deburring pipes

                          Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
                          Almost forgot,those pull type bore pullers for reaming?
                          saw one in the REMS catalog while looking for an attachment for my
                          amigo portable threader.

                          Rick how efficient is yours.As you stated step drill bits and standard
                          reamers always leaves shards.
                          not sure if we are describing the same tool? the one i'm talking about looks like a small pliers. it has 4 small pins. 2 on one side of the jaws and 2 on the other. for 1/2'' and 3/4'' you use the 2 closest pins. on 1'' and 1.25'' you use 1 close and 1 far pin. on 1.5'' and 2'' you use the 2 farthest pins.

                          this tool works best when the pipe is not already installed. it's easier when you can rotate the pipe in your hands.

                          i believe the one i'm using is made by wheeler? don't remember, i bought it from the trade show 2 years ago and there is no name on it.

                          never tryed a step drill. i guess it's fast on 1/2''-1''.

                          well the trade show is the first week in june and it's in long beach this year

                          might find it there.

                          rick.
                          phoebe it is

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: deburring pipes

                            I have spent hours reading back over this forum.My girlfriend cannot understand wht is going on,she thinks I'm nuts.Why do I care so much
                            about what other people are talking about.

                            I would just like to say the GOOD people of our individual scope of
                            service deserve what they are told they are paying for.In far too many
                            cases this is not happening.A large majority of contractors are letting
                            there quality of instalation spiral downwards at a multiplying rate,using
                            the term "Its comparable to industry instalation standards".The (experts)
                            of this forum understand this and appreciate each others views on it.

                            I am trying to find a format for a new post that draws in DIY's as I saw
                            most of you did when you found somewhere that your pride in your exprtice
                            was appreciated.

                            I am not going anywere,even though I have to tell you guys,I'm realy going
                            to work on my typing skills to hole shot (racing term) you on generic
                            plumbing issues.

                            I got my journymans L.A. in 87,C-36 in 90.Did not have the right mind set
                            to be confident in running and protecting my own business,until now

                            I always am grateful when someone forwarns me about there pet.
                            Believe it or not,I am currently working on my third dog.His name is Snoopy,
                            he is a rescued napolianic minature pinser.He is always testing himself
                            against newcomers,but within a few minutes he's your best hound.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: deburring pipes

                              Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
                              I got my journymans L.A. in 87,C-36 in 90.Did not have the right mind set
                              to be confident in running and protecting my own business,until now

                              I always am grateful when someone forwarns me about there pet.
                              Believe it or not,I am currently working on my third dog.His name is Snoopy,
                              he is a rescued napolianic minature pinser.He is always testing himself
                              against newcomers,but within a few minutes he's your best hound.
                              I believe the dog Rick was referring to is plumbdog10 who along with at least Rick, you(?) and I resides in the general Los Angeles area. Let me know if you need any advice or whatever on opening your own shop. I recently sold my plumbing business to an employee of 20-years but I still am active in the Trade.

                              As for your tying skills there is no test on this Forum although it did take a while to get Rick to stop YELLING AT EVERYONE!

                              Mark
                              "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                              I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                              Comment

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