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  • Teflon tape? Pipe dope? Hydraulics systems

    I have read for years that one should not use Teflon tape for (High pressure oil filled lines) hydraulic fittings on machinery, (as it can possibly get in to the system if poorly applied and plug or cause problems with the close tolerances in a hydraulic system, usually used on systems under 2000psi, that use IPT),

    but in doing some other reading, In mechanical fourms the statement came up,

    "Teflon tape is not a sealant it is a lubricant" and thus allows one to tighten a fitting tighter so there is no leaks,

    so I ask the question is Teflon a lubricant or a sealant,

    Question two?

    "pipe dope in a can" that you brush on, that contains Teflon,

    How does it differ than the tape or besides it is in a past, and has Teflon in it? what else is in it? (as most manufactures OK it for hydraulic fittings.)

    Hydraulic fitting are carefully machined and the tolerances are much closer than in water fittings,
    Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
    attributed to Samuel Johnson
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

  • #2
    Re: Teflon tape? Pipe dope? Hydraulics systems

    Originally posted by BHD View Post
    I have read for years that one should not use Teflon tape for (High pressure oil filled lines) hydraulic fittings on machinery, (as it can possibly get in to the system if poorly applied and plug or cause problems with the close tolerances in a hydraulic system, usually used on systems under 2000psi, that use IPT),

    but in doing some other reading, In mechanical fourms the statement came up,

    "Teflon tape is not a sealant it is a lubricant" and thus allows one to tighten a fitting tighter so there is no leaks,

    so I ask the question is Teflon a lubricant or a sealant,
    all pipe dopes are lubricants and also contain sealants. some more than others.
    Question two?

    "pipe dope in a can" that you brush on, that contains Teflon,

    How does it differ than the tape or besides it is in a past, and has Teflon in it? what else is in it? (as most manufactures OK it for hydraulic fittings.)
    the dope will usually harden and seal the joint.
    Hydraulic fitting are carefully machined and the tolerances are much closer than in water fittings,
    as long as you don't back off a teflon tape joint, it should seal fine. apply the tape so that no tape overlaps the lead thread. the tape will flake and travel through the system. more of a problem with the valving of a hydraulic system.

    pipe dope with teflon is typically an approved product for use on plastic too. most dopes are not approved for plastic threads.

    the hydralic systems that i have on my pipe bursting equipment uses a combination of "jic" fittings and tapered pipe fittings. i have used a combination of dope and tape. both with no problems.

    rick.
    phoebe it is

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Teflon tape? Pipe dope? Hydraulics systems

      The only Hydraulic fitting that are machined are JIC fittings and it`s not all that carefully. The rest are pipe threads

      Pipe dope in a can will work best as a sealant on Pipe threads as JIC has a machined nipple to seal and needs no other sealant.

      If not used right The Teflon Tape can and will brake off and stick valves on Hydraulic systems so stay away from it unless you know what you are doing.
      http://www.all-clear-sewer.com/

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Teflon tape? Pipe dope? Hydraulics systems

        I do lots of work on heavy equipment, and have used both. As Rick said be carefull of the tape overlap, due to it getting lodged in a valve. Then again I have removed and replaced many lines(tapered fitting) with nothing and have had no leaks.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Teflon tape? Pipe dope? Hydraulics systems

          Here in alberta, its stipulated in our gas code that Iron pipe threads shall be taped starting 2 threads back from the end, to avoid the risk of getting tape into the pipe, which can clog or ruin a gas valve. Also,Teflon tape IS a lubricant. not a sealant. I challenge anyone who disagrees to take a couple
          1 1/2" nipples and 90's, and tape only one of the nipples. then take a 10" pipe wrench and see which fitting goes on farther. the one that goes one farther is tighter and has less of a chance of leaking. I always thought dope/ t-tape was a sealant until i tried this for myself.
          West Trail Mechanical Ltd
          Service. Commitment. Expertise.

          www.westtrailmechanical.ca

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Teflon tape? Pipe dope? Hydraulics systems

            Originally posted by BHD View Post
            I have read for years that one should not use Teflon tape for (High pressure oil filled lines) hydraulic fittings on machinery, (as it can possibly get in to the system if poorly applied and plug or cause problems with the close tolerances in a hydraulic system, usually used on systems under 2000psi, that use IPT),

            but in doing some other reading, In mechanical fourms the statement came up,

            "Teflon tape is not a sealant it is a lubricant" and thus allows one to tighten a fitting tighter so there is no leaks,

            so I ask the question is Teflon a lubricant or a sealant,

            Question two?

            "pipe dope in a can" that you brush on, that contains Teflon,

            How does it differ than the tape or besides it is in a past, and has Teflon in it? what else is in it? (as most manufactures OK it for hydraulic fittings.)

            Hydraulic fitting are carefully machined and the tolerances are much closer than in water fittings,
            I've done more than a few hydrolic systems using both tape and pipe dope, with no problems. Nor have I ever seen a proplem with natural gas piping being clogged by teflon tape.
            the dog

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Teflon tape? Pipe dope? Hydraulics systems

              Originally posted by bigPipe09 View Post
              Here in alberta, its stipulated in our gas code that Iron pipe threads shall be taped starting 2 threads back from the end, to avoid the risk of getting tape into the pipe, which can clog or ruin a gas valve. Also,Teflon tape IS a lubricant. not a sealant. I challenge anyone who disagrees to take a couple
              1 1/2" nipples and 90's, and tape only one of the nipples. then take a 10" pipe wrench and see which fitting goes on farther. the one that goes one farther is tighter and has less of a chance of leaking. I always thought dope/ t-tape was a sealant until i tried this for myself.
              Exactly! The main function of dope or tape is as a lubricant. A side benifit is that they also act as a sealant as they help fill in the imperfections or voids in the threads.


              2005 Gas Code
              6.9.6 When a jointsealant is used, it shall be certified to ULC standard and shall be applied to the male threads only. Tape shall be stretched and applied in a clockwise direction,with a 50% overlap leaving the first two starter threads bare.

              Recently I watched a new hire 4rth year apprentice goop Whithams Select Unyte pipe dope into the female thread of a fitting. When I asked him WTF are you doing? He replies, this is what my last journeyman did! So I throw him a roll of gas tape and say use this instead. He proceeds to hang the tape half way over the end of the nipple and then wraps it counter clockwise. Well, I lose it, I snap, I head fake him with the code book, the idiot goes for it, heater, smoker and a flurry to the solarplexus, hes lying in a pool of blood, pipe dope and tape strands. I says, hows that punk. Is that "this is what my last journeyman did" enough for yah? No, seriously, I sent his sorry a$$ back to the shop for some orientation and deprogramming!
              Last edited by Hondahead; 02-15-2007, 01:05 AM.
              You will never expand your mind, if you do not challenge your beliefs.

              By the reading of this post, you acknowledge and agree that the poster shall not be responsible or liable, directly or indirectly, for any damage or loss caused or alleged to be caused by or in connection with use of or reliance on any content contained herein.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Teflon tape? Pipe dope? Hydraulics systems

                Originally posted by bigPipe09 View Post
                Here in alberta, its stipulated in our gas code that Iron pipe threads shall be taped starting 2 threads back from the end, to avoid the risk of getting tape into the pipe, which can clog or ruin a gas valve. Also,Teflon tape IS a lubricant. not a sealant. I challenge anyone who disagrees to take a couple
                1 1/2" nipples and 90's, and tape only one of the nipples. then take a 10" pipe wrench and see which fitting goes on farther. the one that goes one farther is tighter and has less of a chance of leaking. I always thought dope/ t-tape was a sealant until i tried this for myself.


                big pipes, anything for the exception of sand is a lubricant.
                spit will lube a thread. sure teflon is probably the slickest material that we work with. infact teflon tape actually sticks to the roll and itself due to static electricty, not friction
                in this case the teflon is there to fill any void in the threads. why do you think we use teflon for packing. it's to fill the void and still allow the stem to rotate. no leaks.

                there are pipe dopes that literally can seal a joint that is only threaded on hand tight. that's because the dope will harden and seal the joint.

                just a heads up

                rick.
                phoebe it is

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Teflon tape? Pipe dope? Hydraulics systems

                  Thread sealants such as Neolube® 100 or Swagelok's SWAK® Anaerobic Thread Sealant are more than just lubes, but they are for special application and NeoLube 100 should not be used on systems that contain Oxygen and they both have other limitations.

                  Teflon tape and other lubes or sealants must be applied carefully on systems with solenoid valves, metering valves, and flowmeters as even a tiny piece of tape can cause a SV or the other type components or instruments to malfunction, same goes for just about any paste style pipe dope.


                  What about Loctite® HVAC Blue Pipe Sealer or their PST® sealants? These are designed primarily as sealants, not lubricants, though they will of course offer some lubricating qualities where applied.

                  I could name plenty of others, but my point is these examples are not lubricants, they are sealants.

                  And not trying to start anything but Sparkys are the ones I usually see putting dope on FM threads, and they gob it on too like it was wire pulling lube
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                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Teflon tape? Pipe dope? Hydraulics systems

                    Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                    [/B]

                    big pipes, anything for the exception of sand is a lubricant.
                    spit will lube a thread. sure teflon is probably the slickest material that we work with. infact teflon tape actually sticks to the roll and itself due to static electricty, not friction
                    in this case the teflon is there to fill any void in the threads. why do you think we use teflon for packing. it's to fill the void and still allow the stem to rotate. no leaks.

                    there are pipe dopes that literally can seal a joint that is only threaded on hand tight. that's because the dope will harden and seal the joint.

                    just a heads up

                    rick.
                    Point taken. Honda is right, lubrication is the main function. as far as your "anything other than sand is lubrication" comment, save the generalizations for your apprentices. I'd like to see a joint lubricated with spit taken apart after 40 years.
                    Last edited by bigPipe09; 02-16-2007, 01:47 AM.
                    West Trail Mechanical Ltd
                    Service. Commitment. Expertise.

                    www.westtrailmechanical.ca

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Teflon tape? Pipe dope? Hydraulics systems

                      I was wandering there for a second sorry,I don't see the difference tape,
                      dope,spit.How is 40 years going to make a matter.Be careful.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Teflon tape? Pipe dope? Hydraulics systems

                        just seems to me like after long periods of time, proper lubrication makes taking joints apart a little easier, though i will admit that taking apart an old joint where a hardening pipe dope was used, (early pipe dope was homemade by mixing portland cement and cutting oil) the initial turn of the pipe can be tough to make.
                        West Trail Mechanical Ltd
                        Service. Commitment. Expertise.

                        www.westtrailmechanical.ca

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Teflon tape? Pipe dope? Hydraulics systems

                          Some of the early pipe dope was white lead, was it not? At least that what what I was told by some very old timers,
                          All I know is it worked and was easy to undo and work with, even tho it was put in the early 1900's,
                          Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
                          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                          "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
                          attributed to Samuel Johnson
                          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                          PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Teflon tape? Pipe dope? Hydraulics systems

                            Originally posted by bigPipe09 View Post
                            Point taken. Honda is right, lubrication is the main function. as far as your "anything other than sand is lubrication" comment, save the generalizations for your apprentices. I'd like to see a joint lubricated with spit taken apart after 40 years.
                            The object of thread sealent is to seal the joint, not to provide easy removal forty years later.
                            the dog

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Teflon tape? Pipe dope? Hydraulics systems

                              You guys wouldn't beleive how unique every job can be.Working on an apartment complex project 300 new units at our new local university,the foreman actually told about 15 plumbers they shouldn't use pipe dope on angle stops they will squeeze the ferrule out the back of the compression nut.I was reading yesterday in a prior thread about the companies being responsible for our next generation.Here is some more powder for your pistol

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