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Copper For Gas Under Slab!!!

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  • Copper For Gas Under Slab!!!

    While readin back over the forum the candian plumbers reminded me of something I saw a few years ago.
    While a contractor was sawcutting a slab of an existing structure he cut into a copper line supplying natural gas.The entire system was plumbed under the slab with no protection from cocrete to copper, fittings were installed and soldered under the slab.Within my first week of being an apprentice I knew no way in the mid 1980's could you use copper for gas,I would be laughed out of the uniform plumbing code.

    How do you figure a 80 home tract that was built in the 1970's was completed in the Ventura county and got passed the administrative authority.

  • #2
    Re: Copper For Gas Under Slab!!!

    copper is used alot still for underground gas around my parts. Mostly soft type k, but sometimes you see type l sleeved with pvc. There are quite a few restrictions though, soldering isnt permitted,has to be brazed, flared, or an approved compression (and in my municipality they dont even allow that), if it is buried below slab or sidewalk though, it must be at least 2 feet below ground, so it wouldnt get cut by the concrete saw.
    Last edited by bigPipe09; 02-17-2007, 10:38 PM.
    West Trail Mechanical Ltd
    Service. Commitment. Expertise.

    www.westtrailmechanical.ca

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    • #3
      Re: Copper For Gas Under Slab!!!

      Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
      While readin back over the forum the candian plumbers reminded me of something I saw a few years ago.
      While a contractor was sawcutting a slab of an existing structure he cut into a copper line supplying natural gas.The entire system was plumbed under the slab with no protection from cocrete to copper, fittings were installed and soldered under the slab.Within my first week of being an apprentice I knew no way in the mid 1980's could you use copper for gas,I would be laughed out of the uniform plumbing code.

      How do you figure a 80 home tract that was built in the 1970's was completed in the Ventura county and got passed the administrative authority.
      If you are working under the UPC, see 1210.1. This would be 2000 UPC.
      the dog

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      • #4
        Re: Copper For Gas Under Slab!!!

        that was my point to the homeowner even though however his house passed inspection in the 1970's.because it was being reinspected in 2005 the only thing I could do is re-install entire system properly.he found someone to do it cheaper than me.Never saw the end result.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Copper For Gas Under Slab!!!

          Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
          While readin back over the forum the candian plumbers reminded me of something I saw a few years ago.
          While a contractor was sawcutting a slab of an existing structure he cut into a copper line supplying natural gas.The entire system was plumbed under the slab with no protection from cocrete to copper, fittings were installed and soldered under the slab.Within my first week of being an apprentice I knew no way in the mid 1980's could you use copper for gas,I would be laughed out of the uniform plumbing code.

          How do you figure a 80 home tract that was built in the 1970's was completed in the Ventura county and got passed the administrative authority.
          Up until the mid-70s homes were still using copper for natural gas. Mostly it was limited to pilot tubing on furnaces and water heaters but quite a few homes in Sherman Oaks had it in the slab. Whenever we found gas in the slab. during a remodel we had to do a complete new gas system.

          It is not the gas which affects copper it is the odorant which the gas company now adds to the gas which eats the copper up. Although we no longer install gas under a structures slab the copper would still be fine for gas if not for the chemicals in the odorant.

          Mark
          "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

          I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Copper For Gas Under Slab!!!

            2005 Canadian Gas Code

            6.15.7 Underground piping or tubing shall not pass below a foundation, wall or under a building.

            Copper is still used for underground gas up here but polyethelyene is more common.
            You will never expand your mind, if you do not challenge your beliefs.

            By the reading of this post, you acknowledge and agree that the poster shall not be responsible or liable, directly or indirectly, for any damage or loss caused or alleged to be caused by or in connection with use of or reliance on any content contained herein.

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            • #7
              Re: Copper For Gas Under Slab!!!

              i was under the impression it's the sulphur content that affects the copper.

              i still come accross some copper gas services from the curb meter to the house. it appears to be fine until an earthquake valve needs to be installed.

              as dog mentioned the 2000 upc. ridgid and viega/ propress makes fittings for gas. it's a different rubber o-ring.

              rick.
              phoebe it is

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              • #8
                Re: Copper For Gas Under Slab!!!

                Plumber Rick;
                "until an earthquake valve is installed".I don't understand,is that because the system then needs to be inspected making it necessary to update to current code specs.,electrolysis,ahh o.k. I'm stuck.

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                • #9
                  Re: Copper For Gas Under Slab!!!

                  yet another example of the disparity between canada and US codes...looks like we're beind on this one
                  West Trail Mechanical Ltd
                  Service. Commitment. Expertise.

                  www.westtrailmechanical.ca

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                  • #10
                    Re: Copper For Gas Under Slab!!!

                    typically the gas main from the meter to the house remained underground. when an eq. valve needs to be installed, we would have to bring it up above grade and tie back in under the house. since the gas line was copper, we would replace it with yellow poly or green steel pipe.

                    now with csst/ stainless gas pipe. it's much faster to run gas under a slab. it does have to be sleeved and vented to the outside. this is usually used for an island type installation.

                    rick.
                    phoebe it is

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                    • #11
                      Re: Copper For Gas Under Slab!!!

                      Because our natural gas is odorless we would not know when there was a leak until it was ignited. As such Southern California Gas adds an odorant so we know when it is leaking. The odorant is mercaptan which is an organic material which includes sulfur as a principal ingredient. As Rick stated, it is the sulfur in the odorant which eats through copper. Areas which do not add mercaptan would not have our problem.

                      Mark
                      Last edited by ToUtahNow; 02-18-2007, 12:59 AM.
                      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Copper For Gas Under Slab!!!

                        I FOLD..........Let's go outside and have a digging competition.
                        Yeh, I thought so

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Copper For Gas Under Slab!!!

                          Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
                          I FOLD..........Let's go outside and have a digging competition.
                          Yeh, I thought so
                          digging competition YOU WIN
                          "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                          I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Copper For Gas Under Slab!!!

                            Natural Gas is primarily methane with some ethane. The other hydrocarbons that are found in natural gas are butane, hexane and octane and are removed by the gas supplier in the compressor transmission plants. Natural gas does not have a noticeable odor and by itself can be very corrosive to the transmission lines. The gas suppliers not only add methyl mercaptan to the gas so that it will have that sulfur odor they add corrosion inhibitors aswell to prevent line loss. The corrosion inhibitor is a surface active agent.
                            You will never expand your mind, if you do not challenge your beliefs.

                            By the reading of this post, you acknowledge and agree that the poster shall not be responsible or liable, directly or indirectly, for any damage or loss caused or alleged to be caused by or in connection with use of or reliance on any content contained herein.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Copper For Gas Under Slab!!!

                              Hondahead,
                              Perfect,you are the exact person I want to ask.
                              One of the things I was warned about some here are book smart and others have street skills.
                              As best I can tell you got skills.
                              Did you just pop out there on the great internet and bring that one home to us or
                              is that in your Canadian code.ToUtah,Rick,Dog and some others I understand their knowledge.
                              Is that for the most part how things are done here.It's kind of a trip.

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