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In series water heaters

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  • In series water heaters

    Built a travertine shower last year for a couple and it is rather large with shower heads and side sprays at each end plus a rain head in the center. The current gas 40 gallon heater provides them with about 6 minutes of hot water, but they would like more. There is a space issue for a larger (75 gallon) heater or a second 40 gal. as it is a finished lower level.
    I've never installed a tankless heater and am wondering if it is feasible to put one in series with the tank heater so the tank feeds the tankless. As the tank starts loosing recovery the tankless would fire up and maintain the temperature, at least that's my thinking.
    This is a weekend lake home and hardly gets used. Under normal (non shower) use the 40 gallon tank heater would feed hot water through the tankless without the tankless firing up.
    Anybody have a thought on this?
    Thanks, Mike

  • #2
    Re: In series water heaters

    Right idea, wrong approach. Leave the original water heater and system as is. install a tankless just for the shower. Either that or do a whole house tankless($$$$$$) and do away with the tank type all together.
    info for all: http://www.hoistman.com http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/index....wwtoolinfoforu --- "I like long walks, especially when they are taken by people who annoy me."

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: In series water heaters

      whats the gallons per minute with all heads running?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: In series water heaters

        Installed 2 rennia 7 gal. per min in series & connected to 100 gal. storage tank with recirculating system for large home on beach in malibu 2 weeks ago.

        This homeowner no longer has an issue filling up her oversized jaquzzi tub while other fixtures are in service.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: In series water heaters

          Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
          Installed 2 rennia 7 gal. per min in series & connected to 100 gal. storage tank with recirculating system for large home on beach in malibu 2 weeks ago.

          This homeowner no longer has an issue filling up her oversized jaquzzi tub while other fixtures are in service.
          I'm a little confused as I don't see an advantage to using tankless heaters with a 100 gallon storage tank and a circulating pump? I'm also wondering why in series rather than parallel?

          In series you have the first heater pre-heating the water for the second heater which will increase your temperature rise which you are already doing with a storage tank and a circulating pump. In parallel you are doubling your temperature rise.

          If I were to use a 100 gal. 199,000 BTU heater I could easily fill a full size Jacuzzi to 104 degress without a problem.

          Mark
          Last edited by ToUtahNow; 04-07-2007, 08:14 PM.
          "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

          I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: In series water heaters

            toutahnow,
            This particular customer has an insatiable appetite for hot water.

            They previously had one of those 100 gallon water heaters with the mechanical vent,supposed to be high efficiency.The water heater was unable to keep up with the children and hers bath time.This is no bull$#*!,they had the water heater rep out a multiple of times and the only thing he could do was max out the thermostat.Basically the water heater was 6 months old and junk.On a side note,when the heater was drained there was an extremely large amount of green sediment in it,so I don't know if it's malibu's water or the heater.

            Utah,my bad,should pay more attention to terminology.So used to listening to others and myself use the incorect terminology of in series,the correct term and the way these were installed parallel and looped through tank with check protecting the cold supply.

            Also installed the bypass valve that had a hose thread connection for introduction of the deliming solution,I was told it was expensive.

            I don't know if a 100 could keep up with this customers particulars.

            I am not totally convinced on tankless yet.

            Thanks for the help

            Adam

            p.s. you guy's should have seen their saltwater fishtank,6'x10'x2', anyone for sushi
            Last edited by drtyhands; 04-07-2007, 11:31 PM. Reason: add

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: In series water heaters

              I think things are getting a little wild but interesting. PapaDan has the right idea. Mike M. currently has a 40 gallon gas fired water heater and he also has space problems so he can't just go and install a second one or replace it with a light commercial water heater. The idea of a tankless just for the new "Super Shower" is a good one and leave the rest of the house as it has been. Series connecting water heaters is normally for when you need really hot water such as the dishwasher in a restaurant. A booster is fed from the main water heater with say 120-140F water and it boosts it to around 200F.

              -----------------------------------------------------------------
              drtyhands

              Sometime if you can find the manager in, ask at a good size self service laundry if you can take a quick look at their water heating system. Such a place needs loads of hot water and especially when it gets busy.
              Last edited by Woussko; 04-08-2007, 12:29 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: In series water heaters

                Originally posted by Woussko View Post
                I think things are getting a little wild but interesting. PapaDan has the right idea. Mike M. currently has a 40 gallon gas fired water heater and he also has space problems so he can't just go and install a second one or replace it with a big light commercial water heater. The idea of a tankless just for the new "Super Shower" is a good one and leave the rest as it has been. Series connecting water heaters is normally for when you need really hot water such as the dishwasher in a restaurant. A booster is fed from the main water heater with say 120-140F water and it boosts it to around 200F.


                drtyhands

                Sometime if you can find the manager in, ask at a good size self service laundry if you can take a quick look at their water heating system. Such a place needs loads of hot water and especially when it gets busy.
                It could be a good be a good option,imo,as long as one considers plumbercracks question on gallons per minute.Some of the lower end tankless heaters have a hard time serving more than one shower head

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: In series water heaters

                  tankless heaters are not all their cracked up to be. 2- 40 gallons in parellel with 40,000 btu's is still less than a 75with 75,000 btu's. a tankless of decent size is 199,000 btu's.

                  i would install the tankless to feed the 40 gal. heater and recirc. to the 40 gal. this way the 40 always has hot and is primarly used to keep the circ. system hot.

                  keep in mind that a tankless requires a special stainless cat. 3 vent and a larger gas line. not something that is cheap to do.

                  not a big fan of tankless, but in certain situations. this might be that situation?

                  rick.
                  phoebe it is

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: In series water heaters

                    Mike

                    Do you think you could find a place to install an insulated water storage tank somewhere? Maybe you could do like what Rick has in mind only just use the 40 gallon gas water heater you have and using a recirculating pump and the storage tank have say 80-100 gallons (total) of hot water ready.

                    Rick is correct that tankless water heaters leave a few things to be desired. You can't get loads of hot water really fast from most of them.

                    Maybe we best wait for Mike to figure out what the lowest temp of water coming into the place is at a time the shower would be used and what the flow rate for the shower is. This may end up where they need 200 gallons of say 100-105 degree F water over 10 minutes! And that the incoming water is at 35 F in the winter.


                    "Maybe we best wait for Mike to figure out what the lowest temp of water coming into the place is at a time the shower would be used and what the flow rate for the shower is. " - That's the only good part. The rest needs to go.
                    Last edited by Woussko; 04-08-2007, 08:37 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Re: In series water heaters

                      So...us poor middle class folks living in a $300,000.00 home are forced to use 2.5gpm shower heads and 1.6g toilets so the spoiled rich slobs can get multiple shower heads and 7gpm? That's crap!~

                      We are in a drought here boys and girls and CA. AZ. NM. NV. and many other states in the area may soon be fighting the Indians again for water!

                      Cactus Man

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                      • #12
                        Re: In series water heaters

                        Why delete,some have a water fetish,personaly I have a tool fetish a lot of people don't see eye to eye with

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: In series water heaters

                          cactusman

                          I hear you. In my family we have a place with a drilled well. In the summer after there's been a month of so without much rain everyone in the area has to really work on saving water or the wells will run dry. Here in the city, I have the shower restrictor and water saving toilets. While I half hate them, I also like trying to lower my water-sewer bills. The same restrictions that apply to a family with a gross income of $25K or one with $5 million need to be the same. It needs to be based on the number of people, their age and their health condition per house or appartment.

                          When I see the local self service laundry getting rid of "water hog" top loading washing machines and replacing them with nice water saving front loaders, I'm happy. I never liked top loaders anyway.

                          Time for Woussko to shut up.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: In series water heaters

                            Originally posted by Woussko View Post
                            Mike

                            Do you think you could find a place to install an insulated water storage tank somewhere? Maybe you could do like what Rick has in mind only just use the 40 gallon gas water heater you have and using a recirculating pump and the storage tank have say 80-100 gallons (total) of hot water ready.

                            Rick is correct that tankless water heaters leave a few things to be desired. You can't get loads of hot water really fast from most of them.

                            Maybe we best wait for Mike to figure out what the lowest temp of water coming into the place is at a time the shower would be used and what the flow rate for the shower is. This may end up where they need 200 gallons of say 100-105 degree F water over 10 minutes! And that the incoming water is at 35 F in the winter.
                            Dude, slow down.

                            Your posts make no sense. You're down to starting posts about yourself. Give it a break. Relax, take a deep breath spend some time with your friends and family (if you have them).

                            You know nothing about plumbing. Relax.
                            the dog

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                            • #15
                              Re: In series water heaters

                              Once again "The Dog" is correct, only he forgot one major thing. I know nothing about anything other than how to howl way too much.

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