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  • Copper Pipe

    Has anyone ever found bubbles in there copper pipe. Bought a few hundred feet last week , when I cut into some today found bubbles/air pockets. Called supply house they said they would take it back. Bean plumbing for over 10 years and never seen this before.
    THE GLASS IS ALWAYS HALF FULL

  • #2
    Re: Copper Pipe

    Originally posted by Crappy days View Post
    Has anyone ever found bubbles in there copper pipe. Bought a few hundred feet last week , when I cut into some today found bubbles/air pockets. Called supply house they said they would take it back. Bean plumbing for over 10 years and never seen this before.
    I'm not sure what you mean. Do you have a picture?
    the dog

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Copper Pipe

      I mean air bubbles, voids in the material(copper). I spoke with a buddy today from a steal refinery he said things like that can happen due to the cooling process. He was shocked they didint catch it at the manufacturing site.
      THE GLASS IS ALWAYS HALF FULL

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      • #4
        Re: Copper Pipe

        Like, bubbles within the copper itself? Pictures of that woulda been neat, but no I've never heard/seen anything of the sort.
        Proud To Be Union!!

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        • #5
          Re: Copper Pipe

          I had a couple thousand feet last month that had bad seams but never seen a bubble.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Copper Pipe

            copper is extruded. it's not cast into the pipe we use today. it's stretched into it's current size.

            rick.
            phoebe it is

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Copper Pipe

              Originally posted by plumberscrack View Post
              I had a couple thousand feet last month that had bad seams but never seen a bubble.
              Plumberscrack in answer to your catch phrase;
              My thoughts to the subject on flat rate.
              Since I STAND over flat rate it must be B-LOW ME
              Last edited by drtyhands; 05-13-2007, 08:12 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Copper Pipe

                Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
                Since I STAND over flat rate it must be B-LOW ME

                LMAO!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Copper Pipe

                  Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                  copper is extruded. it's not cast into the pipe we use today. it's stretched into it's current size.

                  rick.
                  Make up your mind Rick , copper tubing is either extruded [yes] or stretched [no], can't be both as they are different processes.
                  ---------------
                  Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
                  ---------------
                  “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
                  ---------
                  "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
                  ---------
                  sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Copper Pipe

                    well in a way it's stretched. it starts off as a large diameter, thick copper tube, then pulled,(stretched) and formed/ extruded onto a mandrel to its final size.

                    i've never seen it done, but this is what was told to me by the copper tubing co. rep.

                    bob, do you have a link to this process

                    rick.
                    phoebe it is

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Copper Pipe

                      http://www.nsf.org/business/newsroom...copperman.html
                      How Copper Tube is Manufactured

                      The first step in the manufacture of copper tube is to cast molten and/or refined copper into large "logs." Casting can be done by either the continuous or semi-continuous method.

                      In continuous casting, metal is poured into round horizontal graphite molds which are water-cooled to freeze the copper as it passes through them. Gripping devices withdraw the copper from one side of the mold as more molten copper flows into the other end. Slowly, a solid log of pure copper about 12 inches in diameter is formed. A moving saw cuts the log into two-foot sections weighing approximately 400 pounds. These sections are known as billets.

                      When the casting process is carried out vertically, it is called semi-continuous casting because it has to be interrupted when the length of the billet reaches the depth of the pit beneath the molds. Some tube makers use molds containing a central water-cooled core so that the log emerges as a thick-walled pipe called a tube round.

                      If the 418,000 tons of scrap copper recycled each year were drawn into half-inch tube, the strand would circle the Earth more than 16 times!

                      Piercing
                      The billets are next heated to approximately 1535°F (835°C) to make the copper pliable. A pointed rod called a piercing mandrel is driven lengthwise through the center of the billets to create what will eventually become the inside wall of the plumbing tube. This step isn't needed if the billets are cast as tube rounds. Piercing can take place either immediately before or concurrent with extrusion.

                      Extrusion
                      The billet, again heated to the proper hot-working temperature, is placed in the chamber of an extrusion press. The horizontally mounted chamber contains a die at one end and a hydraulically driven ram at the other. The face of the ram is fitted with a dummy block and, in some cases, with a piercing mandrel. If the billets are already hollow, the ram includes a rod (or mandrel) that is slightly smaller than the hole in the die at the opposite end of the chamber. As the ram moves forward, the copper is forced over the mandrel and through the hole in the die, causing a long hollow tube about 2 inches (70 mm) in diameter and 87 feet (26 m) long to squirt out of the extrusion press. It's just like toothpaste, only hollow.

                      Metal near the surface of the billet extrudes backwards over the undersized dummy block, forming a shell. This shell contains the oxidized surface layer of the billet. It is recycled to the refining furnace.

                      In some extrusion presses, the tube exits backwards through a hollow ram. This so-called "indirect" extrusion process offers certain manufacturing advantages. In either case, the extruded tube is cleaned to remove surface oxide scale and prepare it for the next stage in the tube-making process.

                      Drawing
                      Drawing involves pulling the hollow tube through a series of hardened steel dies of gradually decreasing diameters. Before each step of the drawing process, the tube is pointed at one end to fit through the next smaller die. It is then gripped by automatic jaws attached to a rotating, 7-ft-diameter drawing machine called a bull block.

                      Before drawing, a tapered plug mandrel is placed inside the tube. (Floating plugs are used with bull blocks. Stationary mandrels are used for relatively short lengths of tube that are drawn on linear drawbenches.) As the tube is drawn onto the spinning bull block, the mandrel and die act together to reduce both the tube's outside diameter and its wall thickness. The mandrel also makes the tube's inside surface smoother.

                      Tube that is to be sold in straight lengths is passed through a series of straightening rolls. For tube sold in coils, the rolls are set so as to impart a bend of appropriate radius to the tube as it emerges.

                      Annealing
                      Straight tube is sold in the as-drawn or hard condition. Coiled tube is passed through an annealing furnace operating at 1300°F (704°C). Annealing can also be performed in batches aptly called (for their shape) bell furnaces. Annealing softens the tube so that it can be bent to shape during installation. Annealed tube can be distinguished from hard-drawn tube by its matte surface finish. Aside from their appearance and stiffness, however, annealed and hard-drawn tubes have the same qualities and act identically when they are in contact with properly treated drinking water.

                      Final Steps
                      Finally, the tube is cleaned to remove any traces of drawing lubricants or other contaminants. Samples of the finished tube are analyzed at regular intervals to ensure that it meets all requirements of size, wall thickness and quality as required under NSF 61, ASTM B88 and other applicable standards.
                      Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                      "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
                      attributed to Samuel Johnson
                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                      PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Copper Pipe

                        Originally posted by BHD View Post
                        Thank-You BHD,
                        This forum has raised my understanding of my trade to such a higher level in such a short time.
                        Thank-You all

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Copper Pipe

                          bob, do you have a link to this process

                          But of course Rick, here ya go;

                          http://www.copper.org/innovations/ho...ube.html#xtrsn

                          And you are right, both processes are used during different stages of tube manufacturer, one is not a substitute for the other though.
                          Last edited by Bob D.; 05-13-2007, 10:47 PM.
                          ---------------
                          Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
                          ---------------
                          “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
                          ---------
                          "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
                          ---------
                          sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Copper Pipe

                            http://www.copper.org/innovations/how/howdo_tube.html

                            this one has some simple pictures
                            Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
                            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                            "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
                            attributed to Samuel Johnson
                            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                            PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Copper Pipe

                              so bob, i guess i was informed correctly

                              you better watch out bob, bhd is going to be my go to guy

                              thanks bhd, very informative

                              bob, i'll still give you another chance. you still amaze me with all your research and data.

                              bhd, very impressive, way to keep bob on his feet

                              thanks, to both of you

                              rick.
                              phoebe it is

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